Monika Wieliczko: In today's episode, we're talking about solo parenting while we grieve with doctor Rachel Master.
Monika Wieliczko: Hello, Rachel.
Monika Wieliczko: Welcome.
Monika Wieliczko: Hi.
Monika Wieliczko: It's lovely to have you here.
Monika Wieliczko: I was really excited to get you on a pod because you're an expert on solo parenting and you're also a clinical psychologist.
Monika Wieliczko: So I thought it will be a perfect match for today's episode.
Monika Wieliczko: So do you mind just introducing yourself?
Rachel Master: Of course.
Rachel Master: So, yeah, I'm Rachel Master.
Rachel Master: I when you said the word expert, I recoiled because I I In just feel like I'm allergic to the word expert.
Rachel Master: But, yes, I I definitely would say that I've become a bit more specialist in recent years in supporting solo parents, but I also work a lot within maternal mental health, specialising in grief and trauma work.
Rachel Master: And, yeah, I guess it's become a real passion of mine Yeah. \
Rachel Master: To really offer something that's specifically supporting that community of solo parents.
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah.
Monika Wieliczko: And I think one of the things that I really like about your work, Rachel, is that you bring this more human and open approach to working with not just parents, people in general and having your own experience.
Monika Wieliczko: And I'm a big fan of your social parenting on In and how candid you are about your own struggles and also bringing that kind of more human perspective on things and bringing the professional and personal lens.
Monika Wieliczko: So which is why I think you'd be one of those people that'd be really good to talk to, especially in the context of loss of a life partner, because this is specifically what we're talking about.
Monika Wieliczko: And my first question really that I want us to think about is, I suppose thinking about challenges of solo parenting and what that brings in us when we're grieving, especially when we're thinking about people who lost their life partner suddenly or sometimes it's due to a prolonged illness.
00:03:01 Navigating Grief and Parenting as a Single Parent
Monika Wieliczko: So thinking about what that how that affects our parenting abilities, but also what is the climate of of that experience?
Monika Wieliczko: So obviously thinking about your experiences, both personal and clinical, working with people who experienced bereavement.
Rachel Master: Yeah.
Rachel Master: Really, really good question.
Rachel Master: To speak to the first point that you, you made about me bringing my personal to the clinical.
Rachel Master: I think that's such an important part of this kind of of of my stance and and the work that I do is being able to show that, you know, I am a clinical psychologist, but I'm also navigating the many challenges that come with being a single parent.
Rachel Master: So I I really like to bring in my lived experience into my work in that way, just to kind of be able to shine a light on why it is so difficult.
Rachel Master: Mhmm.
Rachel Master: So obviously, on a personal level, I haven't lost, a partner in terms of I haven't lost someone like bereavement, but I I went through a divorce and separation and, you know, a life that kind of a life path path that was thwarted and went in a direction that I hadn't expected and found myself having to spend the bulk of my time with my Rachel Master young kids parenting on my own.
Rachel Master: So this is something that I can absolutely speak to and bring my also my psychology lens to think about why it's so hard. \
Rachel Master: And one of the big things I wanted to kind of name in this podcast was just to acknowledge the impossibility of in, really, that having to process grief, whether it's the grief of a of a life partner, as in they have passed away, or whether it's the grief in terms of being on your own, having been with someone, is immense in itself. \
Rachel Master: Obviously, you know, what we know about grief is it demands so much of you physically and emotionally. \
Rachel Master: It it forces you to turn inwards. \
Rachel Master: It can take you unaware. \
Rachel Master: It's messy. \
Rachel Master: It's unwieldy. \
Rachel Master: It's uncontained. \
Rachel Master: It it really is hard to predict. \
Rachel Master: It includes so many different huge emotion. \
Rachel Master: And then to be having to navigate that on the same time in also trying to be the parent, the the container, the holder, the the nurturer, the soother, the grounded mother, parent who's who's there for your for your kids, who who are gonna really need you because they're going through their own immense grief as well as obviously navigating what it what what's involved with normal development and moving through your childhood. \
Rachel Master: When you put it together, I just need to make that that statement really. \
Rachel Master: It's an impossible task to get perfect.\
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00:05:34 The Struggle of Solo Parenting Through Grief\
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Monika Wieliczko: No. \
Monika Wieliczko: I I think what you just said, it resonates in so many ways with what I've been thinking about, especially I mean, parenting in itself is an impossible task. \
Monika Wieliczko: But when it's just just you and you're grieving and you're so wounded and broken because of the loss and then you have to find that space for someone else, I sometimes wonder whether there is also the social pressure that the aspect of, you know, what is expected of a mother or of a father when we when we're parenting. \
Monika Wieliczko: And then on top of that, the grief comes in and there's another set of expectations how we should grieve or how we should cope with, you know, with loss. \
Monika Wieliczko: On top of that, you've got your own experiences of trying to deal with loss and and how loss, as you said, loss can be experiencing grief can be so unpredictable and so different. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and that that is really quite painful, I think, for some people to acknowledge that things will never be as they should be. \
Monika Wieliczko: And what that installs, I suppose, is a range of feelings or emotional reactions that people then have to deal with as solo parenting. \
Monika Wieliczko: On the one hand, I relate to my own experiences of loss of life partner and just you end up feeling angry, sad, you know, preoccupied with all sorts of things, and and then you have to be for this for that other person. \
Monika Wieliczko: I mean, I personally don't don't have children, so I don't know what that would be like. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I can imagine that for so many people, this is an impossible conflict. \
Monika Wieliczko: You know, if you think of it as a conflict, I suppose. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Because I guess they're kind of assumption and may maybe it's a kind of cultural narrative in many ways in that maybe I'm particularly talking about mothers in, but that we have to kind of almost sacrifice our our whole being and all our own needs to prioritize our children. \
Rachel Master: And it's on yeah. \
Rachel Master: This, even with a partner, is a lot to navigate. \
Rachel Master: But I guess when you put grief into that mix and doing it on your own Mhmm. \
Rachel Master: Exactly that is a very, very challenging task. \
Rachel Master: And I think, you know, when I speak to parents who are in this situation, it's a large part of the work, I think, is being able to bring bring some compassion to that. \
Rachel Master: You know, some acceptance to what is essentially impossible and to ask questions around. \
Rachel Master: Okay. \
Rachel Master: So we can't be all these things. \
Rachel Master: So where what can we let go of? \
Rachel Master: What can we prioritize? \
Rachel Master: You know, given the fact that we're in this situation where we are grieving and we are gonna need space to be. \
Rachel Master: How can I do that while also parenting? \
Rachel Master: I guess it's about sort of letting go of what is an ideal situation, finding acceptance with that, and then working with what you've got, I think, is a really important part of that. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and that's that sounds really interesting what you're saying about something in us that doesn't allow to let go of that perfection. \
Monika Wieliczko: I mean, especially, as you're saying, Master, it's women, I think, that are often put in that impossible role of being perfect. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, you know, what brings to my mind is that film Barbie and and that kind of face that Yeah.\
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00:08:4 The Challenges of Parenting and Grief\
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Rachel Master: The speech. \
Rachel Master: Speech. \
Rachel Master: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and there's like you you cannot win. \
Rachel Master: Impossible. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: They can't win. \
Monika Wieliczko: You can't win. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think there's there's also a part of us, I think, often that gets pulled into it, that kind of attempt, slight slightly manic attempt at getting everything sorted as if if we sort out our lives, practically that something's gonna be sorted out internally. \
Monika Wieliczko: So if I can get hold of, you know, all my child's needs and the house in gonna be clean and everything's gonna be under control, then my feelings obviously gonna be under control. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: And then obviously, what happens there is you've got this kind of perfect veneer, but underneath the surface, everything's really quite messy and numb and chaotic and difficult. \
Rachel Master: And there's a point where your body will will shut you down. \
Rachel Master: I guess this is something that you also hear a lot about when when grief just grief is pushed down and not given space, your body will find a way eventually to force that. \
Monika Wieliczko: To communicate. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I also think that there's there's a challenge that comes with grief. \
Monika Wieliczko: I don't know what you think about that, Rachel. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I was thinking, for me personally, going through grief and going through anticipatory grief initially when my husband was ill and then Master he died, it was a point it's almost like a breaking point of some of the ways I was operating as a person. \
Monika Wieliczko: My kind of personality was very often functioning around this idea of trying to have things under control. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and I think when you're parenting, that often gets tested. \
Monika Wieliczko: But then when you're going through grief, that's another layer. \
Monika Wieliczko: Often, I think what we see is that people people's defenses break down and, and you can't function in the same way. \
Monika Wieliczko: You can't use the same level of attention or or or hard work to maintain the same results because you're depleted. \
Monika Wieliczko: You don't have enough energy to function in the same way. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think that in itself can push that element of, I suppose, a crisis reaching reaching crisis point. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think you often hear that especially listening to people in social groups and Facebook speaking about their struggles with parenting, why they're grief, and and are they doing it right? \
Monika Wieliczko: So they're no longer able to function in the same way they used to as parents. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think that's quite a shock because suddenly, I think you're being forced to come up with a different way of operating as a person, as a parent, as a woman, as a man.\
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00:11:07 Parenting in the Face of Grief: Navigating Challenges and Discovering Opportunities\
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Monika Wieliczko: You don't have enough energy to function in the same way. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think that in itself can push that element of, I suppose, a crisis reaching reaching crisis point. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think you often hear that especially listening to people in social groups and Facebook speaking about their struggles with parenting, why they're grief, and and are they doing it right? \
Monika Wieliczko: So they're no longer able to function in the same way they used to as parents. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think that's quite a shock because suddenly, I think you're being forced to come up with a different way of operating as a person, as a parent, as a woman, as a man. \
Monika Wieliczko: You know, it's it really challenges, and it could be both a really stimulating, potentially transformative experience, but in also can lead to difficulties that might emerge in the body, in mental health, grief to a crisis and things like that. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I wonder what you think about that. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: And in, and then also bringing in the parent frame to that. \
Rachel Master: How does it show up in the relationship with your kids? \
Rachel Master: Because I mean, you know, we all know about maternal rage and misattunement and, you know, what happens when we don't give space to feelings and the grief and the complicated emotions that come up and how do they show themselves? \
Rachel Master: Because I I I think that this is something that comes up a lot with parents on their own. \
Rachel Master: There's a lot of anger and there's a lot of maternal rage. \
Rachel Master: There's a short fuse as you talk about and just everything's depleted. \
Rachel Master: And I guess that that can lead to feelings of guilt and shame, which then adds more to the load. \
Rachel Master: Mhmm. \
Rachel Master: So it becomes a really, really tricky combination of things, doesn't in, that you've just got to manage. \
Monika Wieliczko: So what I am hearing is that those really challenging emotional reactions are getting activated because we're grieving. \
Monika Wieliczko: We don't have the same level of control perhaps that we normally have. \
Monika Wieliczko: Is that when when we start to feel like we're failing or there's something about that situation that, brings up those very extreme reactions. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and I think, you know, what so so this we had the previous episode when we were talking a bit more about grieving and and how children grieve and how they might grieve in a different way than parents do, adults do. \
Monika Wieliczko: But this whole idea, how do we bring the elements of grief into parenting and and not just how grief can be seen as an obstacle, I suppose in parenting, but also whether that could be transformed into something more positive or something that can actually facilitate grief because, you know, we all have experience of grief in one way or another. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I think when it's something so personal, like losing a life partner, that that really kind of reshapes our day to day life extremely like this. \
Monika Wieliczko: I can't imagine how another form of loss apart from losing a child, I suppose, that will change your functioning in so many different ways. \
Rachel Master: In know. \
Rachel Master: I really like what you're saying here because it was yeah. \
Rachel Master: I was gonna speak about how I think that there is something so, you know, grief is the most perfect illuminator, isn't it, in terms of what it it can bring so many gifts, obviously, along with all the the pain, which is inevitable. \
Rachel Master: There is something that it can really clarify. \
Rachel Master: It can help you to really understand what matters. \
Rachel Master: It can make your relationship with your kids and and your family even more attuned, even closer. \
Rachel Master: And it is an opportunity, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: There is opportunity that comes from \
Rachel Master: up meaning that you from it that can, you know, end up meaning that you are really quite it can be wielded as a strength, I suppose. \
Rachel Master: And one of the big things I hear a lot when I I've worked with people who've gone through, intense grief like this is this kind of clarity around, you know, what really matters, boundaries in their life, you know, really kind of pairing things back, an ability to kind of see what they need and what they don't need, being able to kind of say no to the friendships that aren't giving them any nourishment, really kind of prioritize the things that really matter. \
Rachel Master: So, yeah, I guess I just really wanna I'm really pleased you brought that up because it can become so kind of it can feel like it's all negative sometimes when we're talking about all these challenges. \
Rachel Master: But actually, I think there's some tremendous gifts that can come out of these really great traumas and losses. \
Rachel Master: And I think some of the best parents are solo parents actually from what I've from what I've observed in my work. \
Rachel Master: Because they are just so self aware, and they've done the work. \
Rachel Master: And they've been they've had no choice but to do the work. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: So there's there are some amazing gifts that can come out of \
Monika Wieliczko: that. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think what you're saying about that hard work that needs to be put in to surviving as a sole parenting while you're grieving. \
Monika Wieliczko: I mean, it is a survival. \
Monika Wieliczko: I mean, grief, especially initial phase, it's it's all about surviving. \
Monika Wieliczko: And then you've got children on top of that. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's the double load or even triple. \
Rachel Master: The actual brain and what's going on in the brain when you're grieving. \
Rachel Master: You know, it's so impaired, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: We know from looking at the scans of the brain during grief that we simply do not have the same capacity while also hold in mind, in and contain these young children. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think what you're saying is this, it just meant it's meant to go wrong at one point or another. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's just impossible. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think the question is how do you navigate that? \
Monika Wieliczko: And I really like what you said about having those priorities and having to streamline what is possible, what's what feels like it's a manageable perk. \
Monika Wieliczko: And because on the one hand, I can imagine that a lot of parents have to be thinking about the financial aspects of having to provide for the family when the other person is not there. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and then you've got the element of having to be at work and not having that much time at home and having to share a double role. \
Monika Wieliczko: And then you've got the the whole thing of, you know, what are you as a person, not just some mother or a grieving Widowhood. \
Monika Wieliczko: Women. \
Monika Wieliczko: But also where's where's this woman or a man who used to be there? \
Monika Wieliczko: What happens with that? \
Rachel Master: Their own needs. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: Their own needs. \
Monika Wieliczko: What happens with that? \
Monika Wieliczko: What's your experience of working with parents in that kind of capacity? \
Monika Wieliczko: What do you notice mostly happens? \
Monika Wieliczko: In wonder if you can say a bit more about that. \
Rachel Master: Well, so yeah. \
Rachel Master: I guess what you're what what I'm hearing as well, you know, in just to acknowledge that when you're in the midst of it, when you're in the survival, there isn't a lot of mind. \
Rachel Master: You know, there's no spaces there for your needs. \
Rachel Master: It becomes a back seat, I guess, because the other priority is survival like you mentioned. \
Rachel Master: You know, it's like the Maslow's hierarchy, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: Money, food, kids, work. \
Rachel Master: And right at the bottom comes, you know, who am I? \
Rachel Master: What do I need? \
Rachel Master: I find that, you know, sometimes what what I see in in people who go through these kind of transitions in life is that, yeah, when they do get through some of the heavy, awful parts of the grief, they then do come to this sense of self neglect, I guess. \
Rachel Master: You know, I've I've neglected myself in all of this, and there can be a a huge grief related to that as well. \
Rachel Master: A loss of self, loss of identity, and anger. \
Rachel Master: And as sometimes what you'll find is it mobilizes some real anger there. \
Rachel Master: You know, what? \
Rachel Master: The unfairness of that. \
Rachel Master: And I think it's really important to validate that. \
Rachel Master: It's a righteous anger, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: That, you know, you've had to push yourself right down, and that is unfair. \
Rachel Master: And I guess that's part of the work of grief in itself, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: Is integrating into your kind of narrative of the world. \
Rachel Master: Yes. \
Rachel Master: Things are unfair and that life doesn't always give you what you want. \
Rachel Master: But I guess in time, hopefully, you'll get a chance to really explore how you can start to listen to what your own needs are. \
Rachel Master: But this may take some time and I guess the dust needs to settle, and you need to really be able to move through the the survival mode into a bit of a place of a bit more stability, I guess, before you can even get to that place. \
Rachel Master: And maybe there's some work there in just allowing yourself to park it \
Rachel Master: But know that there will be a time.\
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00:18:43 Understanding the Guilt Trap and Self-Care in Parenting and Grief\
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Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I and I think that is so important to know to acknowledge that there's some level of actual, you know, neglect, we can call it, of your own needs that in being your needs are being compromised to some extent, but also finding ways to maybe manage it to some extent so you can function as a parent, if you look after yourself better. \
Monika Wieliczko: But but I was also thinking about something else which kind of strikes me so much in our culture, in Master cultures, where the idea of support Master, an actual system that holds you as a family, but also as an individual when you're grieving is so scarce. \
Monika Wieliczko: And we really struggle, I think, as a community to support each other with that experience and and knowing what your needs are. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think I think often, I mean, that's, experience and and knowing what your needs are. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think I think often, I mean, that's definitely my experience of grief. \
Monika Wieliczko: For a long time, I really struggled to even name what my needs were. \
Monika Wieliczko: When you're surviving and you're having to sustain somebody else's life, And I'm kind of referring here more to the period of time when my husband was very ill, and it literally was like having a baby. \
Monika Wieliczko: So even though I didn't have a baby baby, but I had a baby husband who was completely regressed and completely relying on on my help to sustain, to keep him alive. \
Monika Wieliczko: And that kind of gives me a bit of a, like a, an access to what parenting would look like, I suppose. \
Monika Wieliczko: Because when in someone's so vulnerable, you have to literally put your own needs on heart. \
Monika Wieliczko: Selfless. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I remember thinking that the whole society operated in a way that there was an expectation that I should be doing these things. \
Monika Wieliczko: And there was a part of me that in a way thought that's what I should be doing. \
Monika Wieliczko: So I was playing an active role in that too myself, you know. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think when you're in that survival mode, it really is hard to recognize that you have certain needs, like that you need to eat, that you need to sleep, that you need to have a shower, that you need to, you know, take some time off. \
Monika Wieliczko: That these things are completely wiped out. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, and I think I had, in some ways, very little support, at the time, but I remember one one thing that was really crucial for me was having the experience of my own therapy. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: And that kind of this idea being pushed onto me day after day that my needs do not exist. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think it took it took a very long time to register for me to register and to get in touch with my own anger that this is unfair because I think we feel so but I I was what trying to say is to to talk about this interlink between guilt and anger. \
Monika Wieliczko: And when we feel tremendously guilty, it's impossible to feel angry and it's impossible to defend yourself because our anger is this kind of defense system that, you know, like an alarm that goes off and says, well, this is unfair. \
Monika Wieliczko: But when you feel so guilty, you know, I mean, it took me a very long time to find a way to voice my own concerns and to say, actually, I physically cannot be doing everything. \
Monika Wieliczko: This is unfair. \
Monika Wieliczko: I need some time off. \
Monika Wieliczko: I need to be away from from my dying husband. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and I think something similar applies to parenting, you know, when you've got your children and you have to say sometimes, I'm sorry, but I I really need to have some time to myself. \
Monika Wieliczko: I really need someone else to step in and and and and do something for me because otherwise, I'm just gonna I'm not gonna make it. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: I feel I love what you've just said because it's huge. \
Rachel Master: And I just really wanna, like, circle back to it. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Because mom guilt is enormous. \
Rachel Master: Mhmm. \
Rachel Master: I can't speak to dad guilt because I am not a dad, but I can speak to mum guilt. \
Rachel Master: My own personal experience really comes in there. \
Rachel Master: I really think that that's such an important point that the function of guilt quite often does block off feelings of unfairness, yeah, rage, anger. \
Rachel Master: And maybe there's something about how anger feels dangerous, anger feels volatile, anger feels overwhelming, out of control. \
Rachel Master: And so I think a lot of moms do just focus on the things that they're doing wrong, and it kind of just keeps them stuck, and it keeps them in this kind of archetypical, you know, selfless maternal role. \
Rachel Master: It's a really important thing to get curious about, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: What is the role of my guilt here? \
Rachel Master: What is it stopping me from being able to access? \
Rachel Master: And actually, when I think about yeah. \
Rachel Master: Those those days, even for me when I was kind of first navigating solo parenting, how much, you know, it it kept me in this kind of horrible conveyor belt of self neglect where I just, you know, didn't feel I was allowed or deserving at any time to my and I guess, yeah, it's so important what you've said about carving out that time. \
Rachel Master: We all know the importance of kind of, you know, looking after the gotta fill your own cup before you can fill up anyone else's or whatever the or it's a life jacket. \
Rachel Master: Get all my metaphors mixed up. \
Rachel Master: But, you have to put on my own life jacket. \
Rachel Master: That's it. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: And I just think, yeah, it it we really need to think about it as a not as not a selfish act to look after ourselves, but in a necessity, especially as a grieving mother or someone who's going through a big life transition. \
Rachel Master: Sometimes that looks like just sending long voice notes to your other single parent friends ranting about how hard it is. \
Rachel Master: Mhmm. \
Monika Wieliczko: And sometimes that looks like going on \
Rachel Master: to Instagram and following other people who understand where you're coming from or reaching out to your community in some way. \
Rachel Master: Way. \
Rachel Master: And sometimes that means doing an online yoga class or stepping outside into the garden and doing 10 minutes of slow breathing and connecting with the tree and and stroking your dog. \
Rachel Master: However you can carve out those moments, I think, you know, you need to find that time. \
Rachel Master: It's so important. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think what I hear you saying is there's something about ability to self regulate, which is so important, isn't it? \
Monika Wieliczko: When we are grieving, when we're in the survival mode, when it's not just living, it's literally surviving every day, every hour, and that's not sustainable. \
Monika Wieliczko: And at some point, we have to find a way to regulate back. \
Monika Wieliczko: And then what you said about yoga, I mean, I've used yoga almost on a daily basis when I was grieving. \
Monika Wieliczko: Just it was the only thing I for me physically, apart from parenting, to kind of just down regulate my nervous system and especially the slow poses. \
Monika Wieliczko: And we're actually gonna have another episode in using yoga to grieve. \
Monika Wieliczko: So kind of dive into it a bit more, but I think that is such an important element. \
Monika Wieliczko: But also just carving out that time, like you said, just those little moments when you can actually breathe. \
Rachel Master: It might be life for a moment. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: But it's just a mindset because I I think just going back to the guilt trap because I call it the guilt trap. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's always been my kind of, I kill this kill. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think what I've realized through therapy mostly is I think we struggle with, dealing with our guilt for various reasons. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I think one of the reasons why this is so hard is because we don't want to take responsibility sometimes for our own emotions and how things might impact others. \
Monika Wieliczko: And there's this almost like aversion to feeling guilty. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I think the outcome of that often is that we end up feeling guilty for whatever reason. \
Monika Wieliczko: There's always a reason to feel guilty and we avoid anything that can elicit any sense of guilt. \
Monika Wieliczko: So if I try really hard to look after my children and I'm going to do everything at the cost of my own well-being, then I'm not going to have to feel guilty and I don't have to confront myself with the reality of the situation that, you know, inevitably feeling guilty is a part of life. \
Monika Wieliczko: But then you're missing out that conversation, I think, that happens somewhere in the background, which is about, okay, so I might be responsible for some of it, but am I actually responsible for everything that happened? \
Monika Wieliczko: Is it all my fault? \
Monika Wieliczko: How about me? \
Monika Wieliczko: How about my needs? \
Monika Wieliczko: So it's kind of expanding that kind of circle of who's responsible for what. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think of it as a really important skill that I think we all have to develop at some point enough so that we can assess the situation and decide, okay, in this reasonable to expect that I'm just Monika spend every minute of our of my day looking after other people's needs. \
Monika Wieliczko: And is this alright? \
Monika Wieliczko: Is that fair? \
Monika Wieliczko: And where's this side of you that is feeling, outraged by the situation going? \
Monika Wieliczko: Is it being shut down? \
Monika Wieliczko: Is it is it a part of you that is not allowed to have a voice? \
Monika Wieliczko: You know? \
Rachel Master: Well, that's yeah. \
Rachel Master: Exactly. \
Rachel Master: I think, it's useful thinking about it like that, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: That we have all these parts and they all deserve to have a voice. \
Rachel Master: And if they don't, where do they go? \
Rachel Master: You know, if you in exile your parts, feel angry and neglected. \
Rachel Master: How does it show up in other ways? \
Rachel Master: For me, it was migraines and, other kinds of sort of signs of fatigue. \
Rachel Master: And, you know, for me, I really had to listen. \
Rachel Master: I had to go, okay. \
Rachel Master: I'm not doing enough to look after myself. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: I know. \
Rachel Master: It's really helpful way of looking at it as this kind of guilt trap and and the things that we do to try to avoid sitting with those feelings of guilt. \
Monika Wieliczko: This is hard. \
Monika Wieliczko: I mean, probably one of the hardest feelings to deal with. \
Monika Wieliczko: And sometimes we we try, you know, I'm just thinking about all those parents who might be, you know, thinking, well, what is my child deprived of? \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think a lot of I suppose lots of energy might be placed at thinking about the child and what the child is deprived of, what the child is not getting, and everything kind of is pushed into that one person rather than thinking about it. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think it's Master. \
Monika Wieliczko: What I'm trying to say in it's easier to think about what the child is deprived of than thinking about how guilty we are of depriving ourselves. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely that. \
Rachel Master: And I think there's just something really helpful about I guess in comes back to where I began, which is this kind of idea of being able to bring some acceptance and compassion to the reality, which is that I can't do everything. \
Rachel Master: You know, this is an imperfect situation. \
Rachel Master: There will be guilt, but this, you know, this this isn't all my responsibility.\
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00:Rachel Master8:58 Finding Balance and Compassion in Solo Parenting\
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Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely that. \
Rachel Master: And I think there's just something really helpful about I guess in comes back to where I began, which is this kind of idea of being able to bring some acceptance and compassion to the reality, which is that I can't do everything. \
Rachel Master: You know, this is an imperfect situation. \
Rachel Master: There will be guilt, but this, you know, this this isn't all my responsibility. \
Rachel Master: I I couldn't have helped what's happened. \
Rachel Master: So there's a kind of radical acceptance to the situation that I think does alleviate some of that suffering. \
Monika Wieliczko: Exactly. \
Monika Wieliczko: And in it you're saying there's never gonna be a perfect balance around your needs and the children's needs. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, it's always gonna be you're always gonna be put in the situation when there in a conflict between your needs and their needs. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, you know, it's not something that could be resolved forever, but it's something that In suppose have to be constantly revisited and that decision has to be made every single time. \
Monika Wieliczko: And then there's always the situation where someone has to that they have to be a choice between your needs and their needs. \
Monika Wieliczko: But could there be another way of looking at it that, you know, maybe allows both parties to be included to some extent? \
Monika Wieliczko: And that means that every single one of you have to miss out on something, but it doesn't mean that just one person misses out. \
Monika Wieliczko: And then I think there's something about when we allow to tolerate some of our guilt. \
Monika Wieliczko: Actually, we see that it is kind of possible. \
Monika Wieliczko: So, okay, I might not be a perfect parenting, but Widowhood could we allow some of that, compassion, as you're saying, and understanding that we also we also need to be fed and we need to have some time to relax. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, you know, it's obviously very easy for us to talk about these things, you know, theoretically. \
Monika Wieliczko: But beyond that, it's a struggle and we psychologists struggle as much as everyone else with these things. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: And I think we do need to really name the struggle, particularly for solo parenting. \
Rachel Master: You know, that so many of them financially and emotionally and physically do not have capacity to look after themselves. \
Rachel Master: You know, they're really sometimes there's no there's just no space. \
Rachel Master: I hear that a lot on my, Instagram solo parent psychologist in that, you know, there are a lot of single parents who have no co parent whatsoever, and they're just they're ill, but they have to still get up in the night to look after their kids. \
Rachel Master: And they're also borrowing Master about Monika, and that is a reality that we have it is really, really difficult. \
Rachel Master: I know we've talked about this impossibility. \
Rachel Master: So I guess it's about thinking, what do you do there? \
Rachel Master: And what do you do when you really don't have how do you dig deep \
Rachel Master: In those moments? \
Monika Wieliczko: But I I think what you're saying, I think there's something so crucial because I'm not entirely sure whether people can hear it the the the same way I'm hearing it, which is that that's the reality of your situation. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think we often try to function to deny that reality to say, well, if I tried harder enough or maybe if I put a lot a little bit more effort, if I gave a bit more of myself, clearly I could have coped with it better. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think there's always that kind of internal dialogue that goes on, which I think, somehow adds to this fantasy that we are in control. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: The the reality is that we are absolutely not. \
Rachel Master: But she must be yeah. \
Rachel Master: I mean, that's another huge learning grief, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: Life is completely and utterly out of our comfort. \
Rachel Master: It's it's sometimes As soon as we accept that reality. \
Rachel Master: I mean, it's a really hard one. \
Rachel Master: I don't think anyone can fully ever take that one on board. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think that's the flip side of loss. \
Monika Wieliczko: I often try to engage people in having conversations about the bright side of loss, which is what loss gives you. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think once you let go of this fantasy that you are in control and things are, you know, in your control if you try hard enough. \
Monika Wieliczko: You know? \
Rachel Master: It's quite it can be liberating. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: That's Extremely liberating. \
Monika Wieliczko: And it comes and goes. \
Monika Wieliczko: But yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: It comes and goes. \
Rachel Master: But there's a huge I was talking to a lady just the other day who has experienced the most awful loss, baby loss, and she's just talking about how she feels like a superhuman now. \
Rachel Master: She's done had to experience the worst thing. \
Rachel Master: And once you've experienced the worst thing, you can do anything. \
Rachel Master: And I thought, wow, that's such an interesting way of framing it. \
Rachel Master: And there is a reality to that. \
Rachel Master: You know? \
Rachel Master: I think sometimes when you have to confront these awful parts of life, you learn how strong you are, and you learn how resilient you are, and that you can handle most adversity.\
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00:33:3Rachel Master Challenges of Accepting Help and Support as a Grieving Single Parent\
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Monika Wieliczko: And and I think that kind of leaked me in to another kind of grief, which we kind of mentioned a little bit earlier, about the support system and, you know, how it's often, I think, in a terrible state when we are grief, but also when we're parenting solo. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think that this whole idea of being able to, well, assess what your support system is like, how much support do you need, how much support is available, and how you access that support? \
Monika Wieliczko: And I wonder whether you have any kind of thoughts about that, but I feel like it's such an obvious, like, logical, like, solution that you you can't do it by yourself. \
Monika Wieliczko: So where can you go for that support? \
Monika Wieliczko: And in a in a way, well, also what gets in the way of you accessing those different forms of support? \
Rachel Master: Oh, yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: I think I used to find it almost quite a triggering thing when people would say, you know, use your support system. \
Rachel Master: Use your support system. \
Rachel Master: Because not everyone has this, you know, amazing imaginary support system, and it does take work. \
Rachel Master: And I know for myself, and I know for a lot of other independent career women types, You know, asking for help in not easy. \
Rachel Master: I mean, really, really like like, I'm pleased you just said that. \
Rachel Master: You know, what's the barrier? \
Rachel Master: It's a huge barrier, putting yourself in that kind of position of vulnerability, of having say, yeah, I actually do want your help. \
Rachel Master: And we all know the trope about, when you go through grief and everyone sends you these cards and text messages saying, just shout when you need me. \
Rachel Master: And everyone is grieving and things. \
Rachel Master: Don't make me ask, you know, and it's really odd. \
Rachel Master: And that also brings up that kind of, you know, the inner child that that doesn't want to have to ask. \
Rachel Master: Yes. \
Rachel Master: It's like, I need, but I don't wanna have to ask. \
Rachel Master: It's a really difficult conflict. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's extremely difficult. \
Rachel Master: So I'm really happy that you named that because it's so easy to come on these Master, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: And to say, use your community. \
Rachel Master: And I think we need to talk about why that's hard, and how can we make that Master. \
Rachel Master: So, yeah, I guess for me, it's taken me a lot of time, but I found, you know, slowly slowly, I have found my tribe, I suppose. \
Rachel Master: I've found, you know, for me, it's other single mom. \
Rachel Master: You know, some of my best friends are other single moms, and they're the only ones who understand and that's okay. \
Rachel Master: You know, I realized that I you know, ranting and raving to people who aren't in the same situation, it's not always the same. \
Rachel Master: You know, they can't hear it, in the same way that someone who's got who has gone through to read something similar to them can. \
Rachel Master: So things like the group you're offering, Monica, and, you know, finding people who have had something of a similar experience to in. \
Rachel Master: So so important. \
Monika Wieliczko: It is. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: There is something about the lived experience, the being seen that I think in, you know, cannot be underestimated. \
Rachel Master: It's such an isolating experience. \
Rachel Master: And so finding other people who understand in is everything, but not an easy one. \
Monika Wieliczko: No. \
Monika Wieliczko: This kind of culture context of people not wanting to intrude or not wanting to push their help onto you. \
Monika Wieliczko: So there's an element of that in that too. \
Monika Wieliczko: Because when someone says, you know, oh, you just just tell me if you need anything. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like, but what can I ask for? \
Monika Wieliczko: What's acceptable? \
Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: Because I I remember thinking when my husband was literally, you know, months before he died, like, he was we knew he was dying. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like, I need someone to move in with me and just basically do everything I do so I can have a break because it's impossible. \
Monika Wieliczko: And obviously Yeah. \
Rachel Master: A housekeeper. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: Or someone just a nurse. \
Monika Wieliczko: I I I there'll be probably several people that would need to move in to, you know, to support me with these things. \
Monika Wieliczko: But but I think that there's an element of that that we live in a society that is especially I think in the UK, this whole idea of, you know, people being a bit anxious about intruding, but also knowing how much people other people need. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and sometimes asking that question is obviously all we need. \
Monika Wieliczko: But then accepting that help Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: And communicating your needs is extremely difficult. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think when we are in survival mode, you just don't know. \
Monika Wieliczko: Sometimes you just don't know. \
Monika Wieliczko: Sometimes you just want someone to come in and fix it. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I think as time goes by, I think there's something about acknowledging that we also play an important role, as you're saying, and actually communicating our knees and identifying our knees and having that space to think. \
Monika Wieliczko: And actually, you know Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: Acknowledging that we can't do it ourselves. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: That's been one of my big learnings, I think. \
Rachel Master: Because I I've gone from being someone who really didn't like asking for help, acknowledging when I need help. \
Rachel Master: accepting help. \
Rachel Master: It's definitely something that I have had to dig deep within myself. \
Rachel Master: It's like, why do I find it so hard to accept help? \
Rachel Master: Really listen to that part of myself that finds that difficult. \
Rachel Master: That feels that there's always, what's the word I'm looking at? \
Rachel Master: It's kind of it's always transactional, you know, that I feel like I'm then in a debt, you know, to accept help and then having to feel like I have to reciprocate. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: Just feeling like actually someone gives you something. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's a gift. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think we struggle with accepting gifts of care, attention, \
Rachel Master: time. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: It's really useful thing to think about, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: It's really useful to think about because I think I do see some people who I don't struggle with that. \
Rachel Master: Like, I always think, wow, that's amazing. \
Rachel Master: You can accept a gift Wholeheartedly. \
Rachel Master: Nice. \
Rachel Master: It's nice to give someone a gift and see that they can receive it without any sense of death. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I think that's something yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think there's something about women often being positioned in the society as those that are giving and giving. \
Monika Wieliczko: And being in a position of someone who provides care, attention, it is very difficult to turn that around. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I think that is an important element to be considered that, you know, it's not just we are being, you know, socialized to those norms as we grow, develop in life that, you know, you have to be doing that. \
Monika Wieliczko: And actually no one teaches you that you also have to be able to accept help. \
Monika Wieliczko: And that comes often, I think, with a sense of guilt as well. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like, if you're in debt and someone might use it against you, maybe later on say, well, how about you give it back now? \
Monika Wieliczko: Which is not exactly, an idea of giving someone a gift because a gift. \
Rachel Master: Well, it's not gouging, is it? \
Rachel Master: You're you're you're, preventing the nourishment for yourself, although you can't be able to get any other pleasure from the gift by bringing in guilt. \
Rachel Master: And it just made me think about it like those yeah. \
Rachel Master: That that to think about it about it as almost the polarizing parts. \
Rachel Master: You know, you've got the martyr archetype of the selfless mother who gives everything, and then you've got the kind of that works in the opposite side of I need help. \
Rachel Master: I want help. \
Rachel Master: I can't you know, how do you how do you integrate those two parts in a way so that you are able to be the nurturing figure to your kids, but yet receive support and help? \
Rachel Master: And, you know, they kind of are very conflicting roles, aren't they? \
Monika Wieliczko: Extremely. \
Monika Wieliczko: I I I think all women struggle with it, to some extent. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, and I think in some ways, it's more acceptable for men to ask for help with with parenting, I'm thinking, specifically, if, you know, if they lost their life partner. \
Monika Wieliczko: I'm it's almost like, oh, how the hell are they gonna cope? \
Monika Wieliczko: You know, they clearly need more help. \
Monika Wieliczko: Whereas with women, it's like, oh, they would just get on with it. \
Rachel Master: They can hold everything. \
Rachel Master: They can hold the world on themselves. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: They don't get me started on. \
Rachel Master: In inequality. \
Rachel Master: But, yeah, there is absolutely a sense of kind of women suck it up, and and men need need as much support as they can. \
Rachel Master: I'm sure there's there's people who are gonna give examples of very different experiences there. \
Rachel Master: But, yeah, Largely, I think there is still a very big gender difference. \
Monika Wieliczko: And Master expected of women. \
Monika Wieliczko: Exactly. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I was just thinking about this ability to look out for help and accept not just accept help, but being proactive in voicing that we need help and that something is in a way what's out there in a way. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like, I don't know if you have any not just thinking about I suppose thinking more about practical sources of support or where do people go when they really need that kind of respite or, what what works? \
Monika Wieliczko: What kind of if there are any spot networks or any places that you know about or they're worth in, like, just talking about these things, like, noticing them, but also, like, more practical.\
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00:41:3Rachel Master Support Networks for Single Parents: Creating a Community of Understanding and Resilience\
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Monika Wieliczko: And Master expected of women. \
Monika Wieliczko: Exactly. \
Monika Wieliczko: But I was just thinking about this ability to look out for help and accept not just accept help, but being proactive in voicing that we need help and that something is in a way what's out there in a way. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like, I don't know if you have any not just thinking about I suppose thinking more about practical sources of support or where do people go when they really need that kind of respite or, what what works? \
Monika Wieliczko: What kind of if there are any spot networks or any places that you know about or they're worth in, like, just talking about these things, like, noticing them, but also, like, more practical. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like, where do people go when they really struggle with parenting and what would help with that? \
Rachel Master: I mean, there are lots of kind of well, not lots. \
Rachel Master: There are charities out there on there. \
Rachel Master: There's In, which is simply for single parents that have offered some support. \
Rachel Master: I really do believe and there's lots of evils to social media, social media and Instagram. \
Rachel Master: But I also for me, I found it super helpful to kind of reach out to the community. \
Rachel Master: There's a, app called Frollo, which is all about kind of the online support system for single parents and meetups and being able to kind of find other people with similar aged kids. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: And then there's just kind of, I guess, it's just really it really depends on the age of your kids, but there in so many opportunities, aren't there, for meeting other parenting. \
Rachel Master: It's whether or not you again, kind of are able to receive in those situations, whether it's funny. \
Rachel Master: That's how I've met my tribe, I suppose, is through just going to things, meetings, like minded mothers who are in similar boats, but it's it's not easy. \
Rachel Master: It's not easy. \
Rachel Master: And I guess that's part of what I want to try and develop in my through my work in something which would be offer some kind of community group based support for, single parents. \
Monika Wieliczko: So can you say a bit more about your project, how that works and what it involves? \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: I mean, it's early days for me. \
Rachel Master: I'm just, so I'm kinda just at the point of developing my full private practice. \
Rachel Master: But, yeah, I've I've try I've already got a couple of people, but I'm trying to set set up some kind of online community support group that will be kind of, I'm thinking it will be a rolling program, which will be an opportunity for people to meet other senior parents either online or face to face. \
Rachel Master: So I'm trying to kind of get a sense of how much interest there is out there for that. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's such an important role because it I think what you're saying is that having that experience, which I think often is needed. \
Monika Wieliczko: I suppose my what I really like about your idea is that it's being arranged in the context of not just peer support, but obviously you you're bringing your not just your personal experiences of of solo parenting and that that kind of knowledge of what lived experience of it, but also the the knowledge of the psychological knowledge of what people struggle with. \
Monika Wieliczko: And because I I I think that's, I suppose peer support is essential, but I also think that sometimes there's a bit more than just being feelings being acknowledged. \
Monika Wieliczko: So there are certain blocks like we're talking about guilt and, you know, and avoiding your anger and not knowing how to manage that that needs a bit more help with that. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and I think having that kind of expertise of someone who actually has a depth of knowledge and and expertise in that field, it's such a nice combination that it's not just kind of a support group. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's much more valuable than that. \
Monika Wieliczko: So I think you're slightly unplaying your your role there, Rachel. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: I know. \
Rachel Master: I'm I have thought a lot about, you know I guess, a large part of what my offering will be, I think, will be around resourcing, psychological resourcing. \
Rachel Master: I don't know how you would frame that. \
Rachel Master: But, you know, helping people to think about ways of looking after themselves, mobilizing some self compassion and acceptance, and kind of really learning ways of, like you say, regulating those big feelings, but within quite limited context where there isn't that much capacity Yeah. \
Rachel Master: To go out and do your yoga class. \
Rachel Master: So it's yeah. \
Rachel Master: I think it's really important to think about that. \
Rachel Master: Like, how can we do that? \
Rachel Master: How do we resource ourselves? \
Rachel Master: How do we regulate in context like this? \
Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: Exactly. \
Monika Wieliczko: And that that kind of makes me think about how much do we know about what our support system is like and what do we need and and having that space where people can actually share their own ideas that that stimulate conversation and helps you think about, oh, maybe I could do something similar so you can learn from other people's experiences and how they've coped with it. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, yeah, maybe things we shouldn't be doing if we see how how things can go wrong sometimes. \
Monika Wieliczko: So so that is an essential part. \
Monika Wieliczko: The other thing I was I was supposed thinking just now was the role of grief and sometimes not addressing our own grief. \
Monika Wieliczko: And we had the previous episode on that that goes into more depth about, grief, how children grief, and how that role of our own grief and our children grief, how how that kind of plays out. \
Monika Wieliczko: But but sometimes I I think that if we're not able to carve out the time to grief, and and have that support system around grief, then our ability to parent will be quite severely compromised because, you know, it's not just about parenting, I think, that we need support with, but also, you know, understanding what might be blocking our ability to return to kind of day to day functioning and ability to, you know, be a fully functioning parent at some point. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and sometimes I think that unaddressed grief can affect things longer term in our parenting abilities, which which I think it's it's such a crucial element that unaddressed grief will just come out in those different ways. \
Monika Wieliczko: And and having that space and having that kind of community where you can talk about these things and understand the impact it has. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: I think that, like you say, it's grief is one of those things. \
Rachel Master: It's like a wild, wildy, untamed animal. \
Rachel Master: You know, you need to give it a space to run around. \
Rachel Master: And I feel like if you don't, yeah, it can be really unhealthy. \
Rachel Master: So creating and carving out a space to be a bit messy and have permission to be a bit messy and let out some of those emotions and name them and feel them and move seems like a really important part of it.\
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00:48:10 Exploring the Messiness of Grief and Parenting\
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Rachel Master: So creating and carving out a space to be a bit messy and have permission to be a bit messy and let out some of those emotions and name them and feel them and move seems like a really important part of it. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: Definitely can get a sense of the animal, almost like animalistic kind of urge to just let in out because it's so visceral. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: I it just reminds me of, like, in the early days when I was kind of managing everything with my, separation while also with young kids. \
Rachel Master: It always felt a little bit like a, you call it when you try in explosion, but you have to do it as a contained explosion. \
Rachel Master: What what's the word I'm looking for? \
Rachel Master: Like a kind of, I wanted to explode, but I had to do it in a very sanitized, regimented way. \
Monika Wieliczko: Right. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like an implosion Master. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: And it just \
Rachel Master: start really like, you know, yeah. \
Rachel Master: This is my time that I'm allowed to be really angry, and then I have to put myself back together again and be a parent. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like a moment. \
Monika Wieliczko: Like a window has opened. \
Monika Wieliczko: We've got 10 seconds, Rachel. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Exactly. \
Rachel Master: And it was really, really hard because it doesn't really work like that. \
Rachel Master: Does it? \
Rachel Master: But No. \
Rachel Master: It in of speaks into everything. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: And In and I think there's something about allowing some of those feelings to be the for the children to witness. \
Monika Wieliczko: Obviously, not not the complete mess, but but actually making room for grief. \
Monika Wieliczko: Maui Parenting is so essential because the more we're trying to, separate ourselves from our feelings, the more it's gonna come out and it's gonna trigger certain reactions in the child and the child is grieving in a different way and we're grieving in a different way. \
Monika Wieliczko: You know, there's always so many possibilities for conflicts to emerge. \
Monika Wieliczko: So so I suppose that kind of having going back to the support system and having the space where you can explore these things and normalize your own reactions can have then positive impact on your ability to parent. \
Monika Wieliczko: I mean, that's only fair to say that these things are connected. \
Monika Wieliczko: And if you're completely deprived of your your grieving journey is not progressing, then it's it's going to have an impact on how your child is grieving because, you know, there are Rachel Master people grieving. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: And I I I like what you just said. \
Rachel Master: So I just wanted to say something about that because I really liked in, that you can it's okay. \
Rachel Master: It's okay to allow you don't have to compartment because I guess that's what I was kind of alluding to when I was talking about this idea of the controlled explosion. \
Rachel Master: That wasn't a helpful way of being, kind of separating it out in such kind of compartmentalized place. \
Rachel Master: I can be messy here, and then I have to be together there. \
Rachel Master: And actually, giving parents permission to you know, it's okay to say I'm feeling a bit sad today. \
Rachel Master: You know, I'm missing daddy. \
Rachel Master: And actually, in in in showing them that it's okay to be a bit sad, and you can kind of both be expressing that sadness together, and you can move through it. \
Rachel Master: And I guess it's it's like many things. \
Rachel Master: You're modeling here that emotions are okay. \
Rachel Master: And that, you know, sometimes we have to have a space to be able to feel them. \
Rachel Master: So I guess I'm really pleased you you mentioned that because I think so many parents are so afraid of showing some of these feelings related to grief or any of the messiness really to their children. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: And in there some kind of fear? \
Monika Wieliczko: I wonder what you think about that. \
Monika Wieliczko: Is there some kind of fear that it's, you know, this is \
Rachel Master: Contaminate them or top it's topic. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: I think it comes back to that kind of really over idealized mother thing, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: You know, we're meant to be these kind of selfless, unemotional, contained martyrs, I suppose. \
Rachel Master: You don't really show any messiness.\
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00:51:5Rachel Master Parenting with authenticity and permission to be real\
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Rachel Master: And that's just not real, in it? \
Rachel Master: And the reality is that we're all human. \
Rachel Master: And I think it's okay to show that you can feel sad and that things feel really hard at the moment. \
Rachel Master: And that kids are pick up on on masking and they pick up on repression and they pick up on when you're kind of projecting something that isn't real or authentic. \
Rachel Master: So I always say to my clients, you know, it's much better to be real and authentic even if that is a little bit messy sometimes than it is to put on this facade because I think that's much more of a of a unhelpful way of functioning sometimes. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's not real. \
Monika Wieliczko: And as you're saying, it's a really interesting way you're saying about children knowing. \
Monika Wieliczko: I think that children have the incredible ability, which I think we as adults often learn to ignore as we grow older. \
Monika Wieliczko: They have this incredible ability to know what's true, you know, what's real. \
Monika Wieliczko: And when things are not real, that could be quite a challenge, I can imagine. \
Monika Wieliczko: If you're parenting and your child is really pushing your buttons because they know, they can express certain things we struggle with expressing sometimes or, you know, and that can be quite triggering, I can imagine, if you're not comfortable with your own anger, if you're own sadness, and then you see the child displaying those feelings and what do you do then? \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: That's a whole another topic really, isn't it? \
Rachel Master: What how you we talked about that in the other episode. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: How to Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: You could do it. \
Rachel Master: You could probably go on for another Rachel Master hours speaking. \
Monika Wieliczko: So much. \
Monika Wieliczko: Parenting and \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: The triggering aspects of regulating a a dysregulated child when you yourself just regulated. \
Rachel Master: whole other I'll have to park. \
Rachel Master: Okay. \
Rachel Master: But yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: Oh, yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yes. \
Monika Wieliczko: We could we could see. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: We could spend a lot of time just, thinking about that. \
Monika Wieliczko: But, what I really enjoyed about today's conversation, Rachel, is is this kind of, for me, I don't know about you, but for me, the takeaway message really is something about permission and being real, I think, if I could sum it up. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: Absolutely. \
Rachel Master: Yeah. \
Rachel Master: I think you're right. \
Rachel Master: It's hard to put it into just a quick summary, but you're right. \
Rachel Master: That probably is what it is all about really in parenting what you can and can't do, not feeling trying to bring some compassion acceptance to that, and and working on your ability to ask for help and accept help. \
Monika Wieliczko: So important. \
Monika Wieliczko: And I do hope that this conversation has given our our listeners some something to reflect on and to understand that actually it's not about fixing. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's all about maybe stepping away and and thinking and chewing on these things and and processing what needs to what you need to make some room for or things you need to chuck out and and get rid of, to make room for other things. \
Monika Wieliczko: And, I really hope that I'm sure this has been helpful to many. \
Monika Wieliczko: So thank you so much, Rachel, for coming in and and spending this time together. \
Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. \
Monika Wieliczko: It's been real pleasure. \
Rachel Master: Me too. \
Rachel Master: I've really enjoyed this conversation, actually. \
Rachel Master: Thank you so much for having me. \
Rachel Master: Thank you for listening in. \
Rachel Master: I hope you found it useful. \
Rachel Master: Please stay in touch by subscribing to my podcast and leaving a review on your preferred platform to help other widows grieve and live. \
Rachel Master: Check out our show notes for links to helpful resources or go to guide to afterlife.com to find out more and take part in the grief mot, your first aid course for grief. \
Rachel Master: Join us next Tuesday for yet another stimulating conversation.}
