Season 2, Episode 10: The Healing Power of WAY Community: How to Develop Resilience in Grief with Karen James

Season #2 March 25, 2025

In this episode of A Guide to After Life, I am talking with Karen James, a young widow whose own experiences of loss turned her career around to focus on researching resilient grieving. The conversation delves into the concept of resilient grief—what it means to grieve in a healthy way, the importance of coping strategies, and how personal experiences shape the grieving process. Karen shares her journey after losing her husband Paul to a brain tumour, highlighting the complexities of widowhood at a young age and the need for supportive communities which she found through WAY a charity for young and widowed.

Please consider taking part in a research study that Karen is conducting on resilience amongst young widows. If you have experienced a loss of a life partner consider spending two minutes of your time by clicking on the link.

Key Insights:

Understanding Resilient Grief: Resilient grief involves harnessing coping mechanisms that allow individuals to live with their loss and even grow from it. Grieving doesn’t equate to forgetting; it's about integrating loss into one’s life.
Social Support: Emphasised the importance of finding community support among other young widows, which can provide validation and a sense of belonging during the grieving process.
Balancing Emotions: It’s vital to acknowledge both negative feelings of grief and seek moments of joy. Embracing small, daily pleasures can significantly alleviate the heaviness of grief.
Challenging Societal Norms: Widowhood is often misunderstood, with societal expectations surrounding grief creating additional pressure. Karen encourages a shift in mindset, allowing for personal definitions of grief and healing.

Resources:

Ready to move from surviving to thriving after loss? Visit guidetoafterlife.com to access our free Grief MOT program - your first-aid kit for grief.

Don't forget to subscribe to A Guide to After Life podcast list to be notified of more conversations about navigating grief: https://www.guidetoafterlife.com/podcast-signup

- Book a free 15-consultation with me to discuss the results of your Grief MOT

- Find out about Grief Group Therapy that I offer

- Unsure whether to see a psychologist, psychotherapist or counsellor or grief coach for grief support? Read this blog post to find out more.

Your Host’s BIO:

Dr Monika Wieliczko, Chartered Clinical Psychologist D.Clin.Psych, MSc, MA

Psychologist by profession, and a widow, in private.

Connect with me on social media:

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Guest's BIO:

Karen James Expert by Experience - Biomedical scientist with a growing interest in psychology and bereavement research.

After losing my spouse at the age of 36, following a 20-year relationship, I faced the trauma of bereavement, which included a lack of support and the challenge of rebuilding my life. My firsthand experience of loss and seeking support from Widowed and Young (WAY), a charity focused on supporting individuals bereaved under the age of 51, coupled with my desire to help other young widows, has altered both my career path and life course.

I have previously volunteered for WAY as a northwest area contact and ambassador. I have written articles and given interviews for various media outlets, including newspapers, television, and radio shows. My motivation to help young widows, further coupled with a general interest in psychology, led me to complete an MSc in psychology conversion course, in which I am in the final stages of my research project. When appropriate, I centred my work around bereavement and widowhood, which I believe has contributed to my success in the MSc.

I have a particular interest in resilient grieving and positive adaptation after loss. I am currently looking to pursue a PhD in psychology with a focus on resilience and young widowhood. I hope to positively impact the experiences of future young widows and give back to this underrepresented community.

Episode Transcript

{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\cocoartf2821
\cocoatextscaling0\cocoaplatform0{\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Helvetica;}
{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;}
{\*\expandedcolortbl;;}
\paperw11900\paperh16840\margl1440\margr1440\vieww11520\viewh8400\viewkind0
\pard\tx720\tx1440\tx2160\tx2880\tx3600\tx4320\tx5040\tx5760\tx6480\tx7200\tx7920\tx8640\pardirnatural\partightenfactor0

\f0\fs24 \cf0 Full Transcript\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Welcome to Guide to Afterlife, your go to podcast for young widows. I'm your host, Doctor. Monica Wilidzko, a psychologist and your fellow widow. Each episode brings you insights from world renowned grief experts and authors discussing complex grief issues issues and their personal experiences of loss. My aim is to challenge the way you think, empower you to face your feelings, and help you develop resilient ways to grieve.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Move beyond surviving each day and visit guidetoafterlife.com to take part in the grief MOT, your first aid program for grief. In today's episode, we're talking about resilient grief. So what\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: it means to grieve in a resilient way, how it manifests, but also how we can improve our resilience. My special guest today is Karen James. Welcome, Karen.\
\
Karen James: Hi. Yes. Welcome. Thank you for having me here today. Looking forward to our conversation.\
\
Karen James: Yeah. My name's Karen. I'm currently coming to the end of my master's in psychology. I'm hoping I can move forward to a PhD, but I was widowed at the age of 36. My husband, Paul, died of a brain tumor, and we were together for just short of twenty years. So that's a little background to where I am. Yeah.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. So you've got very much the lived experience of widowhood and very much recent passion for young widowhood and resilience, which is why we've connected over one of the Facebook groups for young widows. When I was kind of researching people's interests and kind of passions and what would be important to include in the podcast. And you volunteered your time to talk to me about what you do, which is, yes, this incredibly important subject of resilience in grief and how different our, I suppose, our trajectory in grief can look like depending on those different factors that influence whether we're grieving in a more resilient way or whether there is some kind of complications on the way of grieving. Yeah. I do. So I suppose I would like to talk a little bit more about resilient grief. Like, how do you understand resilient grief? How would you define it?\
\
Karen James: So for me, resilient grief is having the strategies, coping mechanisms to be able to deal with that significant loss. You know, it it it's it's not about getting over your loss. It's about having these coping and ways of learning to live with your loss and even grow from that traumatic experience. So it's but for me, that's what it's all about. It's it's it's not for it to, you know rather than having a detrimental effect, it's how can I grow and become stronger?\
\
Karen James: How can I move forward with my grief? Yes. Because grief will always be part of me. It's part of the life I have. So it's how do I move forward? How what are the strategies I can or share or have to help me cope with that loss? Because it's difficult. It's nice. You know? And I think Yeah. Maybe it's underestimated how big actually losing a partner in young age is. So that's for me, that's what resilient grief is. It's acknowledging your grief, but still having strategies to move forward and live your life.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. Yes. And I remember when we had this first conversation, Karen, some months ago, and we immediately clicked on that level. And I've told you about my grief MOT, which was exactly based on on this idea of promoting resilience in grief and helping people understand how they can improve their journey of grief. So that it doesn't mean that to speed it up or to, in some ways, change the way we grieve as such, but it's just how to have a better quality of life while we grief.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Because I think there's something incredibly difficult and complicated in our society about the way we perceive loss, the way we think about what grief should look like, how it should feel, how a young widow should grieve, and all those preconceptions and social norms are impacting our experiences massively. So there's something there that is really important.\
\
Karen James: %. And that's actually one of the drives that got me into it was the misunderstandings and the mis misconceptions about grief. I always say, you know, there are no rules yet. I felt when I was reading the kind of were rules, but there are acknowledging that everybody's grief journey is different. Providing them the coping mechanisms to do that.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. So do you wanna say a bit more about how you got into this, I suppose, area of researching resilience in grief?\
\
Karen James: Yeah. Yeah. So for for me, obviously, it all started when my husband was actually still unwell, and it was at the very end, and it's quite timely. I remember googling how to cope when my husband died. And I was like, okay. And then, unfortunately, you know, he passed away. And I remember going to the GP and say, can I get some help? I'm I'm grieving. I'm not depressed. I'm grieving. I've just lost my husband to twenty years. Can you help me? And there was nothing. Just nothing. I was put forward to some counseling, but it was a long way away. Luckily, I accessed a bereavement counselor who who's provided a lot of counseling and to work for you with grief. But then I also came across the charity, Widodo Young, which was just an absolute lifeline for me. All of a sudden, I'd gone from feeling alone, fearful. A quote that keeps coming back into my head is not what my brother said to me. It's like, you have bulldozers. It was literally just come through your life. You're not gonna fix it with a couple of ornaments. So I got from feeling, where am I going? I don't can't relate to anyone. I remember sitting in a room full of people and feeling so lonely even though I'm surrounded by people because people just didn't get it. And then I found where you're widowed and young. And then all of a sudden, it clicked. I had the sense of belonging. I had I could see a future building, and I could see people who got where I was. I could also see people fitting along on their journey, and they were doing okay. It was just it was just vital, you know. It it was a lifesaver for me. But then as I grew with my journey, I realized there's a lot of familiarity going on here. Although everybody's grief journey is different, there's a lot of underlying themes that I could see, a lot of misconceptions. I know we used to have a a joke called widow widow bingo where people have said something trying to help you but actually didn't help at all. Yeah. That got me leading into a bit more research. You know, the more I looked into the research, the more I realized there's just none. There's a lot in the older older widows. And you can see there's a lot of commonalities between the two.\
\
Karen James: But actually, there's a lot of big differences too. You know, if you're if you've lost your partner at the age of 36 or or below 50, you've lost that future. You've you've lost if you if you've been lucky to have children, you're all of a sudden a lone parent. If you're about to have children, your dream of children is just with your partner is just gone. And so there's lots of different navigations that maybe an older widow wouldn't have to deal with, But, yeah, there was nothing to say. How have we learned from this? You know, how do we help people in this situation? And the more research that I did, the more I realized there's just nothing. How can that be? You know, I just want I wanted to help. So I started. I did a lot of sharing of fatality. It's the more I learn, as I said, the more I wanted to help more and give back as much because having those tools that I learned through my journey, I'm not sure where I'd be about them. That's the the only way I can say.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: So your passion for resilience and grief came from the fact that actually there wasn't that much out there, and there still isn't really, let's be honest. There is no concept of a support system for grieving young widows anywhere. I think we kind of pushed into the same category, as you say, as older widows or just people who grieve in general. And and as he's saying, it's very different where literally every area of your life is affected by that loss. Because it's different when you're losing a parent because you you can go back home and you've got a family, the remaining members of the family, usually a partner or children. Your life structure carries out. Yeah. As you're saying, it's very different when your partner dies.\
\
Karen James: I actually lost my mother very young as well. So I lost my mom at the age of 26. So I wasn't new to the to the grief. But equally, that was another drive because I've grieved for my mom who's I remember every single day. But the grief for my partner is very different. Very different. It's very hard to explain that difference. But when you've experienced it, it's it's very different.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. Absolutely. And I can so relate to every single word you've said about this multiple losses, the multiple areas that get affected by that one single death that is just so incredibly overwhelming. And as you said, it's just very difficult in that moment to think that you can come out of it in one piece.\
\
Karen James: Looking back, that's what you need to know that you can. There is hope that you can. And there is. That's where the the resilience comes in. Yeah.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. And we will go into it in a minute a bit more about, you know, what we know about resilience literature, but also recent findings. And you are doing your own dissertation right now. Is that correct?\
\
Karen James: Not yet. Still a work in progress, but it's gonna be starting January now.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Oh, I see. Okay. You've still done your I've done a lot of research on that. Yeah. Even though you haven't collected the data, but you are in this process.\
\
Karen James: And The the struggle I'm I'm having with the is narrowing it down. It's so big. I would like to study everything.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. I know that I know that problem very well. It's so hard.\
\
Karen James: For every chance I've had in my masters, I've searched the widows any, you know, Monika. I've tried to make that as a point of that's why I've gone into psychology.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. And just thinking about, you know, how underrepresented we are in research, any attention, I suppose, in any area in terms of grieving young widows, What why do you think that is? Why do you think we're so underrepresented?\
\
Karen James: So I've thought a lot about this. It is a difficult question to answer, but I've got a few thoughts of why I think it might be. I mean, the first one I think is is a methodological thing is is getting the participants. It's not as easy maybe to get the participants. But through my research, I've actually found out that five to seven percent of the population Karen with the junk, which actually falls between, like, one fourteen, one in twenty, which I think is actually quite quite a lot, quite surprisingly.\
\
Karen James: Yeah. The other another reason I thought really is maybe it's just priority that there's other press and health things like concerns. And they maybe see older adults as more vulnerable because of other factors they have to deal with? Or is it it's just because it's common, you know? For instance, it's I like to think of it even with cancer, for instance. You know, a lot of the funding and things goes to breast cancer and prostate cancer because they're more common. Where something like what my husband had was a brain tumor, the research hadn't changed for ten years. It's just not as common. So I think it could be underrepresented because it's seen as such a small number, but I'm not sure it's such a small number as people think it is, if that makes it, because it's not talked about.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. But I think there's also an element of what leads to what are the most common reasons why you observe people becoming widows or widowers at a young age? It's often to do either with a tragic death, like sudden death, or an illness like cancer. And we know, for example, that there is a massive increase of prevalence of cancer that includes terminal cancer in people 50 globally. So we are actually likely to see this problem becoming more of an issue as time goes by. As he's saying, I think we often feel as if we're the only ones going through this. But when you look at the number of groups on Facebook, for example, growing, where there are hundreds of thousands people in each one of them. And yeah, just kind of when you start talking about this, actually, we're not such a small number.\
\
Karen James: Exactly.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: But we maybe are being kind of left out or just thinking about the financial support. It's so limited for widows. And I think in The UK, you get I think it's like a hundred pounds for eighteen months or a year payments. If you've got children, maybe a bit more, but it is not that much in the grand scheme of things. And there's just never spoken about. I think there's also something about grief in our society. It's generally something that we don't want to be talking about. We don't want to acknowledge what it's like to lose someone. So there's this kind of a massive denial, I think, happening across the board That when you begin to grieve, yes, people make allowances and there's this maybe permission in the society to allow you to be less present and take your time to grieve. But generally speaking, grieving is something that happens in in your own private space, in in your own house when no one sees the pain, no one sees the struggles. And I think that is partially I personally think that might be one of the reasons why we we don't really get that much support because we we feel quite socially excluded, isolated. It's very hard to explain these things to someone who've never experienced such\
\
Karen James: a profound cause. It's funny, isn't it? Because it the impacts of it, and it's not being talked about is still quite it's it's great, isn't it? Especially if resilience is a bit louder. Yes. But one one of the reasons Excellent. I've been very open, I think, from day one with my grief because I want to share obviously, parts of it are pride you know, private I've done. But I've been when when I feel able and I feel safe to, I've shared my grief because the more we talk about it, the more we learn. And the more we share, the more we can share coping strategies and things. So one of my aims is to try and get grief spoken about a bit more because one of parts of being James that you will grieve at some point. You know, you will unfortunately lose someone. The more we speak, the better.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. But also speaking and sharing in itself is what helps on our grief journey. I mean, I personally, one of the reasons why I've created this podcast is to help me grieve. I mean, it helps other people too, but but but, you know, from a kind of a more selfish point of view, it's about, you know, talking about my grief.\
\
Karen James: And that's it. It's me because, I've actually that was some research I did find is that, you know, stories, can help you process your emotions, can help you with meaning making, can help you process the negative emotions as well. So it's really important to if you feel able to to if you can share your story, it's very negative, I think.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. So it's about making sense in some ways, isn't it? Because this is what happens in therapy with anything that happened in our lives, not just loss due to death, but all sorts of kind of life transitions and, you know, negative life events, and also positive life events, I suppose. It's about I think talking means processing in the same way as, I suppose, writing for me has always been that kind of channeling my thinking into words that are kind of then externalized into something that doesn't have to sit in my head, that I can look at, yeah, more externally when I read it back to myself. And and I think talking is similar in that regard. You need another person somewhere you can go and maybe speak to. It doesn't have to be therapists as such, but someone who can listen, who can take in your distress, take in your thinking, conflicting feelings, and all of that. And sharing that story, as you said, is incredibly validating as well. And someone can actually listen and say, well, that was really horrific, what you went through. That's not, something that most people experience at your age.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: So that's one of the things, as you mentioned, that you've been when you've been researching this area of resilience, you found what are the other kind of things of surprising findings or anything you've found that helps with resilience?\
\
Karen James: So yeah. So one of the shocking finding, it goes back to the Karen not being much there again. But one of the that really drove me was that I found a paper on young widows, and it was released in about 2023. And there there was just a line saying at at the time of writing this paper, there was no other quantitative paper on young widows. And, they're looking at it going, what? How how can that be? Twenty twenty three, there's a reward quantitative paper. And in this paper, you know, it said, that your widows are a high risk of psychological distress, risk of grief, prolonged grief disorders, poor adjustments. I was like, how how how can that be? How can that be? So and then the the more reading I did, the more realized how risk of depression I was and how vulnerable I actually was afterwards. When I've done I've done a bit of research through a bit of older widows as well, There were some themes that came through from the reading that I did, and it was that the widows have a desire for connection, acknowledging these different everyone's grief journeys and and the importance of understanding what that other person's going through. And I remember thinking, well, if we can understand a bit more about the desire for connection and the understanding and the the different grief journeys and how people process, if we can understand more, then we can help build resilience and then hopefully promote post traumatic growth rather than post traumatic stress. And I've I've done a lot of research into positive psychology, into little things that you can do, which I'll I'll go into a bit at the end that I found that I found helpful. Mhmm. And that we just need more research. Mhmm.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: So the biggest surprise was just how little we know. We don't\
\
Karen James: But we know a lot about how can I put the risk factors? So that the risk factors, as I said, I still find it quite shocking how that risk there was. A lot of it is taken from the older widows as well. But this specific paper that put in black and white told me I was at risk of all of these things and yet where's the other side of the research to counteract the risk factors.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: So there's something almost like very pathologizing of, you know, what happens when you become a widow at a young age. Because I can think of there, you know, so many factors like the social isolation, the lack of practical support in place, financial struggles, you know, being overwhelmed by the demands of having to provide for the family, especially when we're talking about widows with children or widowers, and how significantly that affects your social life, the the lack of time and space to just kind of engage with life as it used to be and just trying to rebuild your life while you still have to carry on with everyday responsibilities, which often leads to this kind of emotional collapse. So I can see why the grief researchers would focus on the negative impact, which is I think you're saying it's not like we ignoring that. We should talk about that too, that there are incredibly complex factors that influence our experience to loss, and some of them are completely outside of our control because you don't know what kind of financial situation you're gonna be left in when your partner dies. You can't possibly predict that. You can't know how you're going to respond to your loss. And a lot of those things are to do with the external world. Where do you live? You know? What kind of support is available through your GP, you know, physical care and mental health care?\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: As you said, if you go to a GP and, like, in your case, he says, well, there's nothing available for you. You can have, I don't know, six sessions of of counseling on NHS, which is, let's be honest, doesn't even scratch the surface. I mean, what can you do in six sessions? Introduce yourself.\
\
Karen James: You can't even type your story in six sec in six. Seconds.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Exactly. It's just it's laughable.\
\
Karen James: A lot of my friends sometimes, we we have laughed, not just grief because he just how am I in this situation? You know? Yeah.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. Exactly. So I think having a sense of humor about that is also such an important resource, isn't it? You know, that you can you can actually spend some time with another person and just kind of have a bit of a distance, I suppose, from the cruelty of your situation and you find yourself in and and then looking back and thinking, well, is this even real? Is this even possible? So that's another kind of, I suppose, coping mechanism that we can use in a very kind of constructive way because it's in the context of actually understanding that this is very difficult, but also having the capacity to step away from that and look at life from a different perspective sometimes.\
\
Karen James: Yeah. Have a break. Yeah. Hi, Connor. Have a break. Yeah. But, you know, I'd I'd for me, I don't see grieving and living as separate. I think it it it's it's not something you just I'm gonna do that and then get over it. I'm grieved. I'm done. You know, it's a case of get back and forth really with your grief and acknowledging it when you need that time to have the time with your grief, but also having the other side of it as well. As you said, finding humor in small little Yeah. Things to help you Yeah. Have a bit of a balance of those emotions.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. And and and that's where the resilience comes in, to be able to step away from it, to have the resources, internal resources, but also external resources that help you do that. Because actually my, the way I think about grief is that the only way how you can fully let yourself grieve and mourn the loss is when you, when you're able to engage in life. That those two things coexist. That it's impossible in some ways to expect someone to grieve their loss. If they're locked away in their house and they don't see anyone and they can't really have this kind of external perception of where they are in life and and to to let someone else in to talk about that. Because when you're talking, you actually, in a funny way, you're connected with your pain, and you can describe how you feel. But you can also by letting someone else in to listen to that, you're also validating some kind of external reality, which is that life isn't just about loss. You know, you're still alive, and as hard as it is to grieve, there are other things that need to be allowed. The life carries on, that your life hasn't ended.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And these are very incredibly difficult thing to let yourself think about. There's there's a profound shift, mental shift that needs to take place in order for that to exist, I think. And I don't know whether that kind of connects with something in you about your experience of widowhood when you were able to kind of allow that shift to happen?\
\
Karen James: I think one of the very first things for me I I think it might have happened quite quickly because I think for everybody it's different. But what I remember when as soon as he died, I was like I felt like I was in choice of which way to go. And I just never think that this tumor has not taken two lives. It's just not. I've lost this amazing man. How can that be? But it's not taking my life as well. I've got to now somehow find a way forward. And not leave it for him, leave it for me. But I'm lucky I'm still here. So that's how I saw it for it. It's not taking too long. I grief to proactive. I mean, I still I still grief, you know, it's still part of me. It was also kind of I didn't want to die for nothing. And I felt like, you know, if I can do something and help other people, it won't have been a a soundbit. It won't have been nothing. You know, that was my drive. It's not taking my life as well. I'm gonna try and it became a bit of an adrenaline thing. You know, I wanted to feel alive. I wanted to Yeah. Take those positive experiences, try and enjoy life because he couldn't anymore. And Yeah. If anything, it gave me my perspective was a more of appreciation for things. You know, it doesn't have to be those big things because when you have lost someone, you realize actually it's the small things that you that just go by every day that actually you miss. So, you know, I try I try to be more appreciative of the small things in life. Like, I I love nature now. Absolutely love nature. And, you know, cuddling my dog on the sofa, how good that can feel. You know, she's been my companion to it all. So for me, it was like, if it's not taking me, that's the way my attitude was. This is not taking me. Uh-huh. I want to do something positive out of this horrible, horrible situation that I was in. That's my And drive.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And I'm so glad you said that, Karen, because I think there's something incredibly powerful. I was just listening, and I could relate to some of that as well. Just this need to it's not like a standoff, like, you know, as you said, there's there's some anger. I could sense some anger in your voice when you were saying it. I'm not gonna let this illness take my life away too, that this there's there's something quite rebellious and powerful about that in a very good way. Like, I think in a way where I think a lot of women don't allow themselves to feel, you know? And I think in some ways, women experience such profound bereavement in widowhood in a kind of different way to men. And we're probably gonna have to have that separate episode about gender because it's such a huge topic. But I do think that there's something about sometimes resilience being seen as something kind of aggressive or almost like dismissing of grief, which is that kind of misconception that you mentioned at the beginning of how are we expected to feel and and do? How are we supposed to grieve? And, you know, and as he's saying, you know, just telling everyone that I don't want to be completely swallowed up by this grief. There are moments when I grieve. There was a period I can relate to that as well, when this was very hard for me. But I always had that time when I was able to step away and just let myself live amongst the grief. Yeah. To go away, to go on holidays. I went traveling for three months where I think most people were expecting me just to sit on my bottom and not leave the bed. And that wasn't my experience. Like, I was out and about. I needed someone to look after me. I needed to, you know, eat good food and just escape that terrible experience. You probably had something similar going on in your life, presumably when your husband was ill before he died, that it's not just the death that we're grieving, but it's the anticipatory grief before they die that is so taxing.\
\
Karen James: Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, unfortunately, I I felt like I lost my husband twice with the nature of his illness. And then, you know, selfishly, I I often think this that in a way, it enabled me to, as you said, anticipate grief. I felt like I started the grieving process before I'd even passed away. I was dealing with things without my husband even though he was there because he was so poorly. It sounds silly to say you feel lucky. But I felt lucky that I could start grieving without my husband there. But with him being there, I know that sounds very strange.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Not at all.\
\
Karen James: But yeah. And I actually think that, he helped me in that sense, having a good step from when he when he actually died. For me, the process started a lot a lot earlier. Yeah.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: But as you're saying, I think that period of time of just almost like preparing, which we can't really prepare for death as an experience. It always surprises you, but in some ways, you can start to grieve those different aspects of the relationship, of the person that you used to be married to, and then they become their carer. So they are no longer playing that active role, especially towards the end. Usually, they don't really play a role of a husband or wife. They just they withdraw from life bit by bit.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Every day, every week, every month, there's less and less of them. So there is that experience as you said of maybe preparing and thinking and anticipating.\
\
Karen James: I think it helped me with the acceptance as well. I can still remember the day as such. Maybe, you know, I was like, oh, this this is bad, you know. And kind of accepting that this is the way it was going, which I struggled at the time. I'm still doing to this day that I couldn't do anything to help. But in a way, I accepted that he was ill, and that's the way he was going before he actually died. So maybe that helped me in my grief in the way of accepting that he'd gone. You know, once he got me gone. And I think for me, that was definitely a big moment in in my grieving process.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: I completely agree with what you're saying here, Karen. I think that one of the most important elements, factors that influence our resilience is our ability to stay connected with reality of the situation we find just ourselves in. So the fact that, as you said, you were able to confront yourself with his approaching death, that you were thinking about that, that perhaps you were doing some processing of that loss already, was giving you that kind of almost like a better start into that grieving process after his death that many people don't really get a chance to do if they either are not supported to think about these things, or perhaps they just never developed the skills in life to be in touch with their feelings, to be able to express how they feel, that they feel angry, they feel disappointed, that it's unfair, that the death is affecting their life, the illness is affecting their life as well as the person who's dying. So all these things, as you're saying, are incredible signs of resilience, I think, of being able to confront the loss in a more direct way. It's not to say that we should always do it before someone dies. And for some many people, that's not possible, especially if the loss is very sudden.\
\
Karen James: It just reminded me, actually. I remember when I used to try and describe, you know, I felt like I was almost on a I wanted to hit grief head on. You know, I wanted to experience my grief, and I wanted to what could I do to help my grief? Almost like a Yeah. Not ticklish, but, you know, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna be trying to be proactive in my group. Yeah. That's not to say that it was easy No. By any means. No. No. I'm not saying that at all.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: No. Absolutely not. But it's not easy, but it's necessary in some ways in order you know, it has to happen at some point. You can't be running away from it forever. You know, there's initially, there's this shock of the news and the disbelief, the need to kind of run away from it. That's normal. But eventually, we have to come to a place of realization that this actually has happened. For me, personally, it has been the most profound turning point is actually acknowledging it happened, that it and it's permanent. There's no going back.\
\
Karen James: Yeah. And I think that that is definitely a major thing in any group journey. I think it's that acknowledging. And and I I it's almost sad, but but I often think I'm never gonna be that person again because I can't possibly be that person again because I've experienced what I've experienced. And there's something quite sad about that. There is. But then there's also something quite positive about that as well. You know, I'm I'm a very different person than I was. I'm not sure that's all I'm not saying each you know, it's about it's not necessarily a bad thing that I'm not the same person as I was. And\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: It's just different.\
\
Karen James: For me, it's just different. It's just different. You know? For me, resilience isn't a static thing. It's not something you either got or you haven't got. It's something that you can foster. It for me, it takes work to keep working on your resilience as well. You know, it's not something that you can have and just stays with you. It's something that you've you've got to sometimes remind yourself. You know, I mean, it's literally I'm feeling low today. I don't feel like meeting my friends. And then I think, no. That's the time I need to go and meet my friends because it's those conversations and those connections that help you through the hard times.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: So I think what you're saying is that sometimes resilient is about challenging yourself in ways that might not be so pleasant or easy. Like you said, you might want to stay away and not see anyone. And, you know, we all have days like that. And and it's okay from time to time to just say, well, I don't feel like going and talking. But eventually, you reach a point when you think, well, is this really helping you? Wait in a second. Let's let's have an honest conversation with with myself and and think about that. Is this what you want? So I think that you're describing that kind of really important dialogue you can develop with yourself, with your, with your life and what you want from it. And as you said, just being honest with yourself. I think it's incredibly important what is it you want and how much you can influence, your life because of that. But also, as you said, also challenging, though, those kind of social norms or expectations or, you know, what you should or shouldn't be doing as a grieving widow, how you should be honoring your late partner's, death, you know, when is the right time to go into a new relationship, you know, all these kind of areas which are so difficult for young widows to challenge.\
\
Karen James: How long do you leave it before you go through that thing? How long do it? And, you know, for me, I used to say you'll just know. And then and that sounds silly, but I used to get an overwhelming feeling. I need to go and do that, and I'm doing that today. I'm ready to do that today. I go and offer offer them and do it. But, yeah, definitely the the misconceptions about grief and that's funny story popped into my head then and when I'd actually gotten away with the charity. I love saying to my friends, you know, I'm going to Ibiza, who with 20 people I don't know. I mean, what? I was like, yeah, 20 people I don't know. But they're all young widows, and it was one of the best experiences I've ever had. And I still can't explain how good it was because if I wanted to cry, I cried. If I wanted to laugh, I laughed. It was a balance and lose. I remember we were in a having a meal in in the in the bar. We were having a nice time. We were all laughing. And it was like I have not permission to laugh, but there was no judgment that I was laughing even though my husband only died two months ago or whatever. Mhmm. I felt like I had there was no judgment there that it was okay for me to laugh. Mhmm. I remember someone sitting on the next table going, oh, how do you all know each other? So I just went, oh, we're just a bunch of young widows and their face just you know, I I and it still makes me laugh to this. You wouldn't have thought that all through all that sadness came through this connection, you know. And I've made some such lifelong friends through them. But they're not my friends anymore. They're my friends, you know. It's not just built on the negative thing of being a young widow. It's built on much much more. Mhmm. It yeah. And it it's moments like that. It's grabbing those moments that balance that such horrible of life that you're in. But equally knowing in fact, in my group that, oh, I'm having bad moments.\
\
Karen James: You know, I'm just gonna go to my hotel room and have a minute. That's okay. I know one questioned it. They make sure you're okay, but no one can still laugh Yes. Even though you're grieving. Yeah.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Exactly. I would even dare to say is that you should laugh because you're grieving because that's the only way how you can grieve. I mean, it's Yeah. It's I've I feel so angry whenever there's this kind of almost like pressure coming from everywhere. Like, I remember my friends sometimes asking me, you know, there were maybe weeks or months after my late husband died, and they were, like, really concerned about me. That because there was this preconception that I should be very sad, and I should be very unwell almost and struggle. Yeah. And even my late husband, before he died, he had this conception that I am going to struggle for years, and it will take me eventually, I will meet someone, but it will take me a very long time, which wasn't the case, you know? But that always made me really angry. It's like, I understand that people are concerned, but they they're already assuming that you should be sad. That wasn't my first reaction. My first reaction was relief that, you know, I was able to get some of my life back, that I didn't have to worry about him, feel guilty. And that was that was the first reaction for the first few months. Sadness and despair came a bit later. And, you know, how are you supposed to explain that to people?\
\
Karen James: Yeah. And I think that's where acknowledging that everybody's journey is different comes in, isn't it? Because mine was slightly different. I I got the sadness first. But, again, it will be to do with how they died, how how you put everybody I think that is the thing that, unfortunately, there's not one answer for everybody, and it's acknowledging that. And, actually, it doesn't matter. What you know, whatever you're feeling is what you're feeling and acknowledging that and not having these preconceptions of which way you should act or which way you should be.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. Exactly. Which kind of leads on to my next question about the strategies, that young widows can use. Well, based on your experiences, but also the research that you've found that can support this kind of post traumatic growth and more resilient ways to grieve.\
\
Karen James: Yeah. So I think kind of over overarching really behind all the things I'm gonna follow follow is my main thing is remember there is no rules. Mhmm. You know, there are no rules. But if you can, my first one would be to find your group. Find someone you can connect with. For me, it was the charity we're doing young. It will be for everybody. It will be for some. It could be the church. It could be your gym class. It could be a group of friends that you're already close to. Try and find your group because we know that social interactions and that social support is really important to resilience. There's there's quite a lot of research in that. Then my next one would be find your break from grief. That, you know, that is such a big one for me. So for for me, it was my gym. My hiking and my outdoors, they they were my breaks. So I I still believe quite a lot in exercise and pace. And I go to the gym and it for me, it needs to be a gym class. Someone to tell me what to do, where I didn't have to think. And it was time for my brain to cut off, and all I have to worry about, my legs are here and I'm out of breath. But that gave me my break from all the negative emotions that I was feeling. Probably should get the big endorsement rush at the end. Hiking was another one. Again, I'm I'm I'm all the way up the mountain. Don't like it. But I get to the top and still, I just look out on the views. Just breathtaking and it it's it's something that gives me like, there's a bigger world out there. It's bigger, you know, and all the positive and I'm nature. I get quite a lot from from nature now as well, being nature. But it's kind of find your break. It might it might not even be as big as going for it. It could be going for a walk, have a cuddle with your dog, your cat, do a bit of meditation, have a bath. You know, just do something for you to have a little bit of a break that maybe give you a little bit of a nice feeling or something you're doing for you. Could be even that you cook your favorite tea. And then my next one is saying that, but experience your grief. And what I mean about that is embrace those negative emotions. Don't run away from them. Like, I there's times when I woke up and I just need a good cry. I don't know why. I can just feel it. I'm I'm feeling sad today. And I'd stick Molly and me on the telly because I know that'll make me cry. But then I'm also canceling. Counseling is my time to process my grief. I was that's where I talked through what happened. Yeah. And again, I'd have conversations with certain friends through way, process your grief, but then also know okay. I'll have a break from it now. I may not do this. I've had my good cry. I've experienced it. I'm now gonna go and have a break. But balance those negative emotions with positive emotions, I would say. And I'm gonna bring in a little book I've been reading now.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. Sure. Yeah.\
\
Karen James: It's actually called Resilient Movement. I don't know if you've come across it by, Lucy Hall. I'm reading at the moment and you can see. I'm just yes. Yes. Yes. And then I it's got although she lost she's not a young widow, she has experienced a very horrific grief grief. She lost her doctor. And it's just all really of some positive things that you can do on on ways that you can foster these positive emotions really. They don't have to be big things. I think that's the other thing. It's like, you know, it it doesn't have to be massive. It can be small at all. I mean,\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: that's so important, isn't it? Just those tiny little bits.\
\
Karen James: Yeah. I I've always thought of it as bit. Like, someone told me once that grief is a bit like carrying a rucksack full of rocks. And, you know, on the early days and the bad days, it's hard to walk. And and I feel like by being a bit more resilient, you're taking those rocks out. So by doing these little things like my exercise, my hiking, I'm pulling some of those rocks out so it's not quite heavy on those days. I Don't know if that that's my how I see it anyway.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: You don't have to carry everything with you at all times.\
\
Karen James: No. No. Exactly. It doesn't mean because you're enjoying your class or I'm I'm often I'd be having that, you know, laugh. Doesn't mean I'm not breathing at the same time. It's not one or the other. Mhmm. It's learning to live with your grief. We touched on it before. I I I think I said just like, if you can, when you find a safe place to do it, share your story. Share what's happened to you because that helps you process what's happened.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. And as you're saying, that could be in all sorts of forms. Like, people sometimes share their writing, even if it's like a poem or a bit of writing about your experiences, creative outlets, they Karen so, so useful in there.\
\
Karen James: I mean, I used to specific when COVID happens, because obviously that was a difficult time for everybody. But I used to do jail and then, and I used to call it a brain dump. Basically, I'd share a dump whatever was going on in the jail and then profit go again. But anyway, that was kinda like sharing because I'm processing as I'm writing it down. Another tip would be for me is to set goals. Mhmm. Because there's quite a lot of research out there that says that goal setting can actually foster hope Right. Which is also a really good positive emotion. Now, obviously, it depends on when you are in your brief journey, how big these goals need to be, but they don't have to be massive. You know, you're in the early days.\
\
Karen James: It could just be that I'm gonna have a shower today. You know, that's my goal for the day. Or I'm gonna meet a friend. I'm gonna make myself a property. But then also don't be too hard on yourself if you don't meet your goal, and it's okay to put you in the proof and you don't move it on.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: But I mean, actually, what you're saying is that those little changes, almost like a micro adjustments, micro movements are so important because we can't expect someone who's grieving to suddenly just get up and I don't know, get back to work. And I think these are all unrealistic expectations that we all hold. And the more we, kind of feel like we are failing at life or something, the more it reinforces this belief that we can't cope, that we are not resilient, that we we are not able to deal with this terrible loss that we've experienced, which is the opposite of resilience because resilience is not about being strong at all. Resilience is about finding ways to cope through the resources, little bits, asking for help, trying to connect, trying to find some ways that help you feel a bit better. You know, there's these are not massive changes or they're not No. You know, anything kind of unusual. We're not talking about some kind of superheroes. We're not superheroes. No one who's going through grief is a superhero. I think there's this kind of misconception about resilience that there's some kind of superpower, but it's really not.\
\
Karen James: It's not. I as I said, I think it's in it's every it's in everyday everyday life, isn't it? It's just setting those for where you are in your journey, basically, I think. I know one thing I still do to this day, I try and do every morning is as I wake up, I think naturally when you wake up in the morning, you think of all the things you've got to do in your head. I started trying to do a bit of gratitude in the morning and changing that when I wake up in the Monika, what what am I thankful for? Very hard to do when you're a widow and you've just lost everything. You know, your well's just gone. But sometimes it's changing the perspective a little bit because I think, you know, I'm not gonna say gratitude is gonna change everything, but I do value that little hug with my dog. I do value that little walk because all these snippets, tiny bits of little bits across the promotions that they can help in your breathing be a bit resilient with.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. It's so important and so Monika, just listening to you and acknowledging those little things every day. I mean, I I can completely relate to having a dog, and as my therapy kind of dog, like, she's she's definitely has been one of those presences that, you know, never let you down. You know, people can let you down, but dogs don't let you down. They really don't. So having that kind of cuddle in the morning, I mean, it increases your oxytocin. Because especially when you've lost your life partner, your kind of touch or kind of cuddles or kind of physical touch is something that we are terribly deprived of. And for me, kind of that contact with another being, like a dog, the softness of her fur, the kind of tactile sensations are incredibly important. They help with regulating stress hormones, increasing oxytocin, which is responsible for bonding and kind of emotional regulation. Yeah.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And it's it has a soothing effect. So so all these kind of little things that you might not be acknowledging consciously that they're helping you, they really are. So having that kind of contact with another being is incredibly important. Having the capacity to seek that contact is incredibly important to incredibly validating.\
\
Karen James: Yeah. And I think, you know, I don't know if you grief with this, but resilience, you know, I do have to remind myself sometimes it's so something you can work on. You know, sometimes I forget, oh, I haven't done my meditation this week. Oh, I need to do that. You know, life sometimes does get carried away and you'll realize that you haven't had that chat with friends that you need or you haven't had your hike for two weeks. I want you to go and do that. So it's something that's ongoing and and you keep building. It's not something that you've got, it goes away again. But equally, it can still be being improved all the time as well. That that's how I see him. We all need reminders sometimes to take a bit of time for yourself. And I think as life gets busy busier, that's even more important, really.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And as you're saying, it's it's not something that is not achievable. I think it's it's I think for me, the biggest factor really is the external support, social support. And it's Karen, and everyone can find a way to access it, but it also requires a certain level of openness or the ability to seek that support or let it in, you know. And I think that's the kind of thing that you when you were describing yourself and that kind of rebellious kind of, you know, act of, you know, I'm not Monika let my life go to waste because he died. It's actually the reason why I should live. It's a huge shift that I think eventually happens on the grief journey, but for some people, it happens quicker, earlier on, and for others it takes much, much longer to get to. But it's an incredibly important shift that you kind of go say, well, you know, I don't I don't care what other people think or how I should be grieving. I just want to do my own thing. And Exactly.\
\
Karen James: And I think if you'd asked me grief widowhood, would I agree with the way I did? No. My own misconceptions of grief were, you know, it's definitely I I I say to this day, before it happens is not how I thought I'd react to the situation, which says it all really, doesn't it?\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. But it's not just other people. It's all in us as well, you know, ingrained in us, you know, you know, this picture of a grieving widow wearing black and being sad for the rest of her life. You know, it that's the there's the concept that exists in our unconscious minds, you know. It's always there, and then we have to battle against it and to say, well, actually, that's not what's needed or that's not what's healthy, and that's not what should be expected of us.\
\
Karen James: And, you know, like, I can say today, I'm happy. You know, my grief is there. My love my husband is there, but I'm happy. I'm excited about my future. I feel and I'd like my whole aims to help other people feel.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. So giving that permission, Karen, isn't it, to to other people to be happy, to be alive despite the loss. Yeah. That's so valuable, so important. It's such a great summary of today's conversation. And, I was just thinking how incredibly brave of you to be entering this field of research and wanting to shift that perception of grief and widowhood and, and well done for doing that. We really need people like you to be challenging those conceptions and actually saying, wait on the moment, like when you're in your thirties, forties, or early fifties, you you're not gonna grieve in the same way as the person who's there in their eighties. And we really need to be paying more attention to what how to stimulate this more resilient grief. So I'm really looking forward to hearing more about your research and your dissertation and then, obviously, your PhD, which I'm sure with your passion and commitment and, you know, need to help others, that it's gonna be an incredible journey. And, yeah, once everything is kind of in the process, we will obviously have you back and you can report back on your research findings and where things are going. And I really hope we can, you know, continue collaborating in this area and, you know, and and find out more about grief and resilience and post traumatic growth. But thank you so much for today, Karen. It's been incredibly useful and I hope people benefited from listening to your story, inspiration story, but also all those tips that you've provided.\
\
Karen James: So much. Such a talent. Thank you.\
\
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Thank you for joining us. I hope you found it useful. Connect with me on Facebook and Instagram under Guide to Afterlife for more brief tips and resources. Visit GuidetoAfterlife.com to send me your questions and to take part in the Grief MOT, your free first aid program for grief. See you next Tuesday for yet another stimulating conversation.\
\
\
\
This content was created by SummarAIze. Repurpose podcast, webinars, and more with SummarAIze.}

Season 2, Episode 10: The Healing Power of WAY Community: How to Develop Resilience in Grief with Karen James

The Grief MOT

Join Our Free Trial