Full Transcript
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Welcome to Guide to Afterlife, your go to podcast for young widows. I'm your host, doctor Monica Velichko, a psychologist and your fellow widow. Each episode brings you insights from world renowned grief experts and authors discussing complex grief issues and their personal experiences of loss. My aim is to challenge the way you think, empower you to face your feelings and help you develop resilient ways to grief. Move beyond surviving each day and visit guidetoafterlife.com to take part in the Grief MOT, your first aid program for grief. In today's episode, I've got a very special guest with me, Debbie Weiss. She's a best selling author, coach, speaker, a podcaster, a widow, and a mother. She is passionate about helping carers take care of themselves, and today we will be talking about her new book, The Sprinkle Effect, which has been released on November 2024, and that's her second book. She will be sharing with us her journey of a lifetime of being caught up in a caring role, and how she managed to turn her life around in her 50s, and how she's now passionate about helping people overcome their life challenges. So welcome, Debbie.
Debbie Weiss: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here and talk to you.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: It's lovely to have you here. And I must say that, you know, it's always interesting to hear people's stories because it definitely helps me to understand where everything originates from. And so I suppose I wanted you to start by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about the books you've written and what brought you into this career as a coach and podcaster.
Debbie Weiss: Well, it's a long Weiss road, but, I guess my story well, this part of the story kind of starts when I was 17, and I became my father's caregiver. He had a massive stroke at 45 years old, survived, but was permanently disabled. And my parents divorced, and I became his caregiver for the next thirty years of his life. Gosh. And I was learning things in, you know, my twenties that people in their fifties have to learn about, you know, the resources and and different things that are out there for people who are disabled. And then when my oldest son was two, he was diagnosed on the autism spectrum. And I'm I'm a mother of two, so any parent is a caregiver. But I have to say the difference between parenting a child with special needs and not is quite different. So I became very hyper focused on him and and what I could do to help him while my dad was kind of at a stage in his life where he was going downhill. And then my husband developed a a myriad of physical problems and then mental illness issues, wound up be also becoming disabled, and I was taking care of him. And then out of the blue, he was diagnosed with a terminal blood cancer that was unrelated to any of his other issues. And, he passed away six Monika, pretty much six months after the date of diagnosis. So I've had a lifetime of taking care of other people, and I felt sorry for myself. I I didn't know why me. I I kept questioning Weiss me? Why is this happening to me? Comparing myself to my friends, my family, other people, and thinking I'm a good person. You know, why is this my destiny? And like you you mentioned, around 50 years old, I had an moment, which we can talk more about and Yes. Realized, you know, I have the power to make a change regardless of the circumstances that are happening around me. And so now I'm 61. So for a decade, I've been on this journey and it did lead me to writing books, which is something that in my wildest imagination, I never could have imagined. I'm not a person who writes, who who wanted to always write a book. So many people are like, oh, I always wanted to write a book. Not me. But here I am, an author of two books, and it it's crazy. And it just goes to show you that, you know, you don't know what else is out there and what else you're capable of unless you start exploring.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. And that's a really beautiful story in some ways. Obviously, very hard and just hearing about all these men in your life that you had to take care of, your father for so many years and and your son and then your husband who became unwell. And and, obviously, amongst that, there's there's so much grief and so much loss
Debbie Weiss: Yes.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Which is why I thought it would be so so useful for our listeners to hear that story and how, you know, you suddenly changed your life in ways that are really quite striking, you know, and you write a lot about that in your memoir, how certain life experiences shaped you, you know, you as a person, you, I think you write really beautifully about that kind of victim trap, you know, this feeling of not being in control and not having any power of your life. And what's happening to you is kind of determined by your circumstances, and which is, you know, partially true that we can't control, you know, whether someone dies, whether someone's ill, we can't control what kind of families we are born into and what our formative years look like. And that's very much something I often think about when I work with people therapeutically is that these are the things that shape often our identity and the way we perceive ourselves and the world around us. But it doesn't mean that it has to determine your whole life. And I think what is really interesting about your story, and I would like to hear more, you say a bit more about that, is how that changed over time, but also what it was like growing up in a family where you had to become an adult very quickly. You had to become the person who, you know, paradoxically had to be in control of other people's well-being and take on that extra role very, very early on.
Debbie Weiss: Yeah. I think something else about taking on that role that I don't think until recently I really understood is there was also grief in the fact that I lost my father. He was alive, but he was not the same man. And at 17, we had role reversal that doesn't happen until midlife typically. Mhmm. And, you know, I was daddy's little girl. I mean, he was he was everything to me. And I think when he got ill and my parents had had marital trouble a few years earlier. And so I don't I honestly don't remember. There wasn't fighting, but I don't know what kind of place they were in. And my mom was 39 years old.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Mhmm.
Debbie Weiss: And when she decided to get divorced, you know, I had very mixed feelings and that and that's a whole other thing of how I felt about the situation. But I also felt empowered in a way at that time because I was gonna step up and be the one to save the day kind of thing. Mhmm. And so and and, you know, and then people started saying, oh my goodness. Look at Debbie. You know, she She does this. She's she's Mhmm. You know, they're praising me. And and I think, obviously, I didn't know I was doing that, but it was a benefit in a way. It was something else that I was getting because and, you know, this is just another part of my overall story, is that I've always had a weight issue. And so I felt judged all the time. I didn't want to be seen. Because I I knew that if somebody saw me, then they would be thinking that same thought that people would say to me all the time. Oh, you have such a pretty face, which is, you know, what a shame that your body doesn't match. So early on, I think it was actually empowering for me because what it also did was it allowed me to find a voice that I never had for myself because I didn't wanna be seen. But now I had the responsibility to have to speak up on my dad's behalf. And if I didn't advocate for him, who was going to? And so it was different speaking up for him versus myself. And so looking back, it really was it started my journey of personal growth. Now as time went on, I became resentful. I did. You know, why was I the one who had to worry, How am I gonna get my at at a time my father lived about an hour and a half away from me early on because there was nowhere else for him to go. And so it was, how often do I have to get there? How often, you know, do I have to pick him up to take him to a doctor's appointment? Or I have to worry about where we're gonna go for this holiday and how I'm gonna get them back and forth. I did become resentful after a little bit. And as the years went on, it got bad because I noticed that I was always on edge. I was not showing up really the way I wanted to for any of my family members because they could say hello, and I would just explode and start screaming. Because I was a volcano ready to erupt, because I wasn't taking care of myself. I was living with a lot of resentment, even though I knew that it wasn't anybody's fault. But, you know, and the why me? The why me was a very, very big part of what was going on in my mind.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. And and that anger is obviously understandable for any person who plays a caring role in in relationship is that when I would need to compromise, it has to come out in those angry ways one way or another. And there's nothing unusual about it. But I think what you're saying is that you felt quite trapped As if there was no way of rectifying the situation or something was blocking that process. And I can imagine that doing that for such a long time, it kind of, as you said, become a part of your identity.
Debbie Weiss: Oh, yeah.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. I definitely can relate to that in my own journey when I was looking after my late husband when he became ill with cancer and that sense of almost like I didn't really think of myself as a Weiss. I really thought of him more as my baby or someone I was really looking after. So that change in almost role in relationship is quite significant. So as you're talking about role reversal between you and your father, it's a bit different, I suppose, when it's your child, which, you know, you're meant to be looking after your child. So maybe this is a different kind of relationship. But they suspect what you're also saying is that it was in the normal development. Children with special needs usually don't develop in the way we would expect them to. There's the challenges related to how they grow and their mind develops or what they're capable of, what they struggle with. It could be all sorts of things that come out. What you're describing is that sense of not being able to get out of that sense of being trapped in that role, but also, as you're saying that that that role progressing with you throughout your life, even in your marriage.
Debbie Weiss: Yes. And unfortunately, I would say that the last ten years of my marriage were not a traditional husband Weiss role because my husband did become he became a different person. And I I do think that early on, I didn't understand or recognize that it was, you know, clinical depression and anxiety. I didn't really understand. And so it made it very difficult. I wouldn't share some things with him because I knew it would put him into a depression and our marriage deteriorated. Let's just say that. And it was rough. It was really rough because it was for a long time and he and I worked together. I am an insurance agent. I'm the agent. But when I started the agency thirty years ago, we did it with the understanding, you know, that we were gonna work together, which was very difficult the first couple of years I'll say. But once we figured it out, it really was great. But he stopped either coming to work, or he would come to work and take a chair and go outside and nap. I would get customers calling me saying Gary never called me back. And it brought another, you know, it added the stress to now my work life and my professional life, and how do you reprimand your husband. And it was so, so difficult. And one day, he walked out of the office and said, I'm never coming back again, and just left us there. He also had ADHD. He was such a procrastinator, and he had stacks of papers. And I have a a team member who's been with me almost the the entire thirty years. And so she and I, I said to him, let me at least bring the stacks of paper home, and you can tell me what this means. Do I have to call someone? You know, what do I do with this? And he said, no. He couldn't handle it. And so it was really difficult because it left me high and dry there. And he handled things that the rest of us had never been handling. And now with no training, because he was gone and he wasn't willing to do anything, we were thrust into things that we didn't know enough about to be thrust into that. And then I thought, okay. Well, at least at home, he was always he loved to cook. He loved to go to the supermarket and all of that. I hated that. And he was kinda had stopped. And I thought to myself, well, at least if now he doesn't have the pressure of working, hopefully, he'll pick up and go back to, you know, enjoying shopping and cooking, but he didn't. And so now not only did I have to worry about everything at work, now I had to worry about that as well. You know, it was it was tough. And my friends and family would say, what what are you doing? Like, why are why are you staying with him? And in the end, I said, one, I I would never do to my kids. Not that my mother intentionally did it to me. I would never do that. And two, I still loved him. I still loved him, and I couldn't live with myself if I wasn't there to take care of him. But it was not even though it was six months from the time that he was diagnosed with the cancer, it was a decade long struggle.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: So how did that change in your mind knowing that he had cancer? I mean, it was a very quick deterioration, wasn't it? Something six Monika. That's nothing. That's just, you know, in some Weiss, depending what which stage he was diagnosed at. But I think it's a real struggle, but also, you know, in terms of preparation for what's coming, I mean, six months, it's really a short period of time, isn't it? Even though it might feel I know what you mean. It just can feel like a very long time at the same time.
Debbie Weiss: Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, everything changed. I mean, it was like, what? I it was just so unexpected. He had so many other issues that I honestly thought that was what was gonna kill him in the end, that, you know, we were just dumbfounded. The sad thing is is that six weeks earlier, for the first time, he was hospitalized for depression. And he came out of that hospitalization a different person, much more like the man I married. Happy, upbeat, social, just a different person. And he was excited about this new life, you know, with this new outlook. And so the idea that then six weeks later, this is what he finds out, I just think it's, like, the cruelest thing. It was so tough, and he tried for the first month to maintain that upbeat mood. But once things kinda started happening, he lost it. And so, honestly, the hardest part was how his mental illness progressed in those six months. And he became very angry, not nice, and wouldn't let me in. And he resilience. And in in the end, I wound up having to get him involuntarily committed, which was a horrible, horrible scene and experience. And he wound up being hospitalized for thirty days, and he came out the December. And he he hated me. Mhmm. You know? He blamed me. He didn't come out the same way he had come out six months prior. And it was very, very difficult. And there was nothing imminent, you know, that, we expected him to go. And that was the December, and he died December 30, unexpectedly. So I can't say that the cancer was the hardest part in the whole journey for either of us. It was his handling of it and how it really intensified his mental illness.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Which is then the case and something we don't really talk enough about is the mental illness context of mental illness and how that often contributes to death really in terms of, you know, how people cope with various life events like illnesses, like cancer, but also just our ability to communicate needs and and and get the support we need when we're in at the crisis point. And and I think what you're saying is that that, again, must have felt really horrendous to be on the receiving end of that anger, but also so much guilt, I suspect. Yes. I wonder whether that was a big part of it. I mean, just also speaking from my own experience when someone you know, that someone's ill and they might die. And I don't know if he knew that or you said that he died unexpectedly. So were you expecting he's gonna live much longer? Was there some kind of prognosis of his condition? Or
Debbie Weiss: So we knew right from the beginning, the only possible cure was a, oh goodness, you know, a stem cell transplant. And he was not eligible because of all of his illnesses. He had something called MDS. It's kinda like the precursor to leukemia. And so it's not staged like regular cancer, but it's staged like, you know, low risk, medium risk, you know, those kinds of things. And he was a very high risk, but the doctor would never give us a prognosis. You know, he did have chemo. It wasn't intense chemo or anything, and it was only to try and prolong his life. So, you know, I I can't tell you how many hours I spent googling, and I knew all all of his numbers and all you know, you know, everything. Trying to figure out when, how long do we have, you know, all all the things and the feeling of what you know, I just want it to end for him. Mhmm. But then the moment that they took him off a machine in the end and said, he's gone. I said, oh no, I want him back. And that guilt of feeling like you want him gone, you know, it's guilty, even though you're really just don't want to see that person suffer anymore. And you know, it's inevitable. So you just want it to be over for them. And it's going to be two years in less than two weeks. And I feel like I'm finally getting to be at peace with the feeling of guilt. But unfortunately, I really felt like he hated me when he died. And and I had terrible guilt about I did this to him, not the cancer, obviously, but this it was a terrible experience with the hospitalization. And I just have to remind myself that every single doctor was, like, telling me, you have no choice. This has to happen. This has to happen. So it wasn't just me making that unilateral decision.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Of course not.
Debbie Weiss: But he only saw that it was me.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Absolutely. Because for him, obviously, you know, I think that often happens in in relationships, those marriages, but also any kind of relationship that we become containers for each other's feelings, and a lot gets projected into the other person that is difficult or unbearable, especially when we feel like we are out of control and having a cancer diagnosis or even mental health diagnosis often feels like completely out of control. And, you know, and sometimes finding that person who can we can locate those feelings in, It's obviously a very unhelpful way of dealing with things. But it's very common, you know, and can be problematic, but it's it's it's not uncommon. But what I'm hearing, Debbie, is that it's been really hard to manage those feelings of guilt, and I can completely relate to that. I mean, it was very similar for me. Not necessarily that my late husband was blaming me for cancer, but just feel just watching someone die. You know, he was 41. So it it was so early, and and I stayed alive. So so I think guilt in grief is is a plays a huge role. But for you, there was it was compounded by, obviously, his mental illness and how unwell he was and and that the fact that you didn't have that time to say goodbye. So I'm not surprised that it's been hard. And and and I think that it makes it even more, incredible that you have been able somehow to take yourself out of that guilt trap. I call it the guilt trap because it is a trap. We fall into it, and it's very difficult to get out of. But I wonder what's been instrumental for you. I mean, you mentioned, obviously, some ways of how it kind of gradually kind of transformed, but also you mentioned your weight and how that has changed over the years. But I wonder how did that process come about? And obviously that's the basis of your book, the second book as well, isn't it? You know, the sprinkle effect. So which is I wonder whether you could tell us a bit more about that and how that evolved.
Debbie Weiss: Well, the wait happened. That was the first thing that I actually, you know, so I was I was 59 when my husband died just to for some perspective. So when I turned 50, you know, I wasn't in that stage with him yet. And 50, there was something for me about the number 50 that really hit home and made me think, wow, fifty years just flew by. The next fifty are gonna be, you know, come even faster. And I did not want to be that person who got to the end of their life and looked back with regret saying, Weiss did I do this? Why didn't I do this? You know, time went so fast. I want a do over kind of thing. And at that point, that's that would you know, that's how I felt. And I think I realized and I don't I don't know exactly what made me realize, but I think that I realized that nobody was coming to save me. You know, if I wanted it to change, I was the one who had to make a change. Nobody else was going to do that. And I started with my weight. I didn't have any big grief plan of what I was going to do. I had no idea. Everything that's happened to me from that time, I could not have predicted. I just really followed my gut, what felt right. Some some you know, I've made lots of I don't even wanna call them mistakes because they're they're learning opportunities to say, okay. Not that way. You know, make a sharp right turn or something like that. And so I went back to so I was I have had a weight problem. I've lost, gained all the diets, all the things, anyone who's had a lifelong thing, and always gained it back. Mhmm. And I decided that I was going to go to Weight Watchers, which for me had always been a program that was the most effective and easiest for me to to handle. But I was gonna go back, and I was going to take a different approach. In the past, I would always say, Okay. If I don't lose 25 pounds in three months, it's not worth it. I'm a failure. Or lose whatever by the summer, by a trip. You know? And if I would ever slip up and eat something, you know, quote, unquote, I wasn't supposed to, it was like, oh, look, I already blew it. So let me just go for it and just keep eating. And then, you know, you know what happens? You go off the rails and then you're off the rails, and then it comes back. I said, forget all of that. The only thing that I am holding myself accountable to is the fact that I am just going to go and attend a meeting every week. I don't care what I eat. I don't care what I track, and water, and like all the things. And that's all I did for about two Monika, and I didn't lose any weight. And then once I had created that habit of going to the meeting, I added something else small. And I just incrementally continued to add small, little things once I got the last habit down. And it took me at that time, my goal was to lose a hundred pounds. It took me probably about three and a half years to lose 90 pounds. And that was about eight years ago. And I've maintained that, actually a little less right now than, than I was at the end, but I've gained back 10 pounds. I've gained back almost 15, but I've caught myself, which has never happened before. So this by far is the longest that I have ever maintained it. And I'm at a completely different place mentally than I ever have been in my life with regard to my relationship with food and my weight. And, gosh, it's very freeing right now. That's how I feel about that. But when I so when I started to do that and I saw the success, I thought after I had, you know, attacked that problem, well, how can I apply those same strategies to my next problem, which was money? You know? And so that's kind of how it all started. Then when I went down the money rabbit hole, doing small things, I decided that I was to earn more money, I was going to start a business to help caregivers learn to take care of themselves. And twists and turns again, and wound up not doing that after about a year and a half. And when people would hear my story and obviously there's more to it than we've discussed, you should write a book. And people say that all the time to people, right? You should write a book. Oh, or people, I really need to write a book. And I thought to myself, look, now that I've realized, I've come to this realization in my fifties, that I can change my life regardless of all the things that are going on around me. Because don't forget, during this time my husband was on a downhill slide. My son was going into his teen years, and that turned out to be very tumultuous. There was still a lot going on in my life. But I saw how I was able to make that change really just by changing my mindset. And I wanted to let other people know my story because I wanted other people to realize, no, it doesn't have to be this way. You can change your life regardless. I don't care what your circumstances are. I don't care how bad they are. You can do something to make your life better. We all can. It's a conscious choice, and it is work, and it does take time. But I've seen it. I've seen what has happened to me. And so going back to the book question, when all this was going on, how am I going to get my message out to people? And people were saying about the book. And I really started thinking, like, could I really do this? And I've never written before. I've never had a desire to write. I'm like a I'm an accountant by what I graduated from with school. You know, for ten years, I was a practicing CPA. We didn't write as an accountant. We wrote numbers. We didn't write words. And I was listening to a podcast and not a podcast that I'm a regular listener of. And the host was interviewing a woman who helped people who grief first time authors get their stories out there. And I really resonated with her. And so I thought, this is a sign. You know, I don't usually listen to this podcast. People are talking about the book thing, and here she comes. So I met with her. I really connected with her, and she was just launching a twelve week course to teach people how to write their story. And I was about to sign up and my husband got diagnosed. And I was seeing a therapist at the time, and I said to the therapist, I'm embarrassed that I'm even bringing this up at a time like this, when my husband just got diagnosed with cancer. But this has been on my Monika, and I know I can't do it until after we see what happens. And she said, I completely disagree. She said, I think this is the perfect time for you to take this class. And I said, really? That that seems crazy. What if what if I can't show up one week? What if I don't do the homework? What if I don't, I don't accomplish the goal? And she said, who cares? You need something separate from everything that's going on in your life, something different to focus on. And I said, Okay. And I took the leap. And it was very difficult at first, you know, the whole writing process, because I just I didn't understand the structure of the book. Like in my mind, everybody's different how they write and how they think. In my mind, I really needed to see it all laid out. And and once I finally got that far and I had an outline I understood, it got easier because my first book is just 30 or so stories of different things that happened in my life where, you know, together it's an inspirational story about how I developed my limiting beliefs, the things that the challenges that I faced into adulthood, and then what's happened after age 50. And so I actually wrote the book while my husband was dying. Mhmm. When he died, I was three chapters shy of finishing. And I was supposed to have the book to the editor two weeks after he died. 01/14/2023 was my due date. My husband died 12/30/2022. And of course, they said to me, oh, we're Monika extend the due date. Don't worry. And after the funeral, after everybody else goes home and goes back to their life, that's the hardest part. Right? I mean, you know, when everyone's there with you immediately after it happens, you have support. And now there's so many people. It's almost like sometimes you turn into a hostess. And they left, and they went back to their husbands and their jobs and whatever. And there I was. And I thought to myself, writing this book, giving me that something else to focus on really did help me. Mhmm. And I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna finish by January 14 because
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah.
Debbie Weiss: It can help me in the same way in this really difficult time. And so that's what I did.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yes. And and it seems like writing and telling your story in itself obviously can be very therapeutic, meaning that you actually can make sense of that. And I can definitely relate to that myself, I'm writing my own memoir, and and I think that is such a incredible vehicle for understanding and putting things into a different perspective in itself. But, also, what I'm hearing perhaps what seems to have worked for you was this ability to take off that pressure of yourself to do something, that kind of sense of duty or responsibility that you should succeed, that you should be, you know, able to lose weight. You should be looking after your husband rather than doing the writing course or investing in yourself. So there's always this kind of matter of urgency that something else is more important than me. You're saying that once you actually took that pressure off yourself, something something had a chance to appear in your life, which is that maybe, you know, you I'm just thinking about the diet in itself, you know, that if it's forced, if you've, if you're forcing yourself to do something or if there's an expectation, it kills off our desire to do something, doesn't it? Like it kind of becomes a chore rather than something you want. So I can see how that gradually shifted into something that wasn't, didn't feel like pressure to you, you know, to do this. And you gave yourself a lot of time to lose your weight.
Debbie Weiss: I had to let go of that perfectionist thinking, you know, why why do I have to be perfect? I would look at thin women if I was out to eat, let's say, and they're eating something that I would consider bad, you know, fattening or, you know, whatever. And I think to myself, Look at those women. They're so lucky. If I ate that, you know, I would gain five pounds. And look at the way that they eat. But you know, I never stopped to think about, they're not eating like that every meal, every day. This could be, you know, the one night a week that they enjoy whatever they want or whatever it is. And I, I had to realize with the weight, that whole diet mentality, I had to get rid of it. I had to not be a perfectionist If I ate a darn cookie, oh, well, that doesn't mean I have to go eat the whole box because I ate one. That doesn't make me a bad person. That doesn't mean that I failed. And it was the same thing with the writing course. If I said, I'm going to write 3,000 words this week and I wrote two words. Oh, well, that's okay. You don't just stick with it. Stop with, I think the timelines and with the weight, it was that mind shift of you're not on a diet. You're never coming off this. You have to it's a lifestyle change. And my kids used to make fun of me. Like, it wasn't the word lifestyle change wasn't thrown around as much back then. And they would say, mom, is that on your diet? And then I would say, It's not a diet. It's a lifestyle. So even now, they're still like, Is that part of your lifestyle, mom? You know, they still, think it's it's funny, but it was really it's true. Because then I'm saying, well, if this is what I'm always going to be, I'm going to eat a cookie again in my life. You know, I'm going to have pizza, whatever whatever those things are.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. Is that you stop punishing yourself because I can see how sometimes, you know, if you have one cookie, I feel I failed, so then I'm Monika just shove it down my throat, and I'm Monika eat the rest of the package. Run and thinking, okay, maybe I enjoy that one cookie, or do I need another one? You know, there's, there's a different attitude towards yourself and towards your body. And that also transpires to relationship, which is, you know, if you feel bad about not fulfilling other people's needs, I was thinking about being a carer especially, is about boundaries, it is about setting limits. And if you can't do that, then you do the opposite, which is you completely neglect yourself. And it's a bit like with reversed binge eating, it's like everything goes to this other person. And, but there's a part of you that's starving. And I think unless that starving of attention and needs is addressed, I think it's very difficult to regulate those boundaries. And and I think that's just a great example of how you've been able to maybe reparent yourself a bit. And I'm and I'm mindful that you also mentioned seeing a therapist and being in therapy and, you know, trying to understand yourself. So I suspect there was a lot of different things that happened that kind of allowed you to progress into a different stage of your life where, you know, you may be more able to put yourself more in the center at times. And, you know, and I'm mindful that the second book is a bit like the lessons you've learned from that, isn't it? It's kind of, I mean, the sprinkle effects, it kind of makes me think of those little things that you can do adjust your life around that can, you know, accumulate into a substantial change losing all that baggage losing all that weight that, is holding you back or it's stopping you from having something meaningful, more enjoyable in life.
Debbie Weiss: Yeah. After I wrote the first book, I didn't even know when I had to decide, well, what kind of book is it going to be? Is it going to be a memoir? Is it going to be a self help book? And it was it had to be a conscious decision of, will this the first book with the stories, will they relay the message without me at the end of every chapter saying what I learned from this or, you know, some kind of advice type thing. And I decided, no. I'm not gonna do that. And so people said, okay. This is really inspirational, but I wanna know what did you do? What have you changed? And so that's where the second book comes in. And so it is 15, what I call, you know, different sprinkles of things that I've sprinkled into my life and continue to that have really caused the change. And the sprinkles are things that we've all heard of. Belief, mindset, perspective, action, dreams, resilience, curiosity, joy. So Yeah. They all add up to, as the subtitle is, to really make your life more colorful and fulfilling, which it has for myself. And I know it can for everybody listening as well. Yeah.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And that kind of almost like gentle approach to changes, which is not forced, which isn't that kind of I Weiss thinking about boot camp, you know. You go and you you, you know, you challenge yourself, you work really hard, and you get great resilience. And then at the end, you know, everything, the yo yo effect or, you know, that you stop doing it because you can't maintain it. It's the mentality
Debbie Weiss: Exactly.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: That we somehow can change our lives if we work really, really hard. And I think what you're saying is that change doesn't happen overnight and change is not something that you can magically maintain or be in control of, you know, in the same way as you were talking about your weight. You know, you've managed to lose a lot of weight. You might have gained a little bit, then you've lost a bit. Like, it doesn't have to be static and life isn't like that. Changes are not static, but that's the nature of life. Things do, you know, kind of progress or evolve. But you know, all those kind of sprinkles as you call them, which is a very kind of tactile way of describing it, that you can add a little bit of this and a little bit of that and mix, you know, maybe resilience with something else. But I wonder whether you can say a bit more about how the book kind of evolves or kind of like some takeaways from the book for our listeners. You know, what has really been quite essential and transformational for you on your journey?
Debbie Weiss: I think if I had to pick one or two
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah. Sure.
Debbie Weiss: Because mindset would definitely be at the top. Uh-huh. But the other that I actually didn't mention was the sprinkle of responsibility. And I learned a formula that really resonated with me and made me just understand it in a clearer way, which is E plus R equals O, which stands for event, plus response, equals outcome. And I always thought I mean, I didn't know I was thinking it, but I was living my life as e equals o. Mhmm.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: So
Debbie Weiss: the e being the event, so it could be to just take a a small thing. It could be it's raining outside. I just said, oh, that stinks. I'm Monika get wet. It's gonna be nasty. But I never factored in that the outcome is also affected by how we respond. And so if my response to the rain is, this stinks, I'm just gonna run to work and not wear a raincoat or have an umbrella, then, yeah, the outcome's gonna be lousy. But if my response is, okay, I'm going to have the umbrella and, you know, wear the right clothing, then, you know, your day can be fine. And that that's, you know, just a very basic, silly example. But, you know, how do I react to the fact that my husband died? You know, that I'm a widow. Now I'm not saying that, oh, I've jumped up for joy because that makes the outcome better. Of course not. But how I move forward, my response is going to dictate the outcome of my life. I just can't let the fact that I am now a widow equate to a terrible life.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Mhmm.
Debbie Weiss: And that idea that I have the power to change the outcome based on my response, And I never realized that. I didn't have to be the victim for thirty years. I chose it. And that hurts in a way, like wow. But on the other hand, it's so empowering moving forward because that means no matter what happens, whatever comes our way, how we respond to that is going to also determine the outcome. And so that power, and taking that responsibility for my life, and stop blaming everything and everyone else for the outcome. Oh, that can't happen because of this. Oh, that person won't let me blah, blah, blah. No. You decide. And yes, everybody it's life. There are always going to be difficult circumstances. And it doesn't mean that whatever you do can make it into a rainbow, but it will change the course of your life. And I think for me, that was extremely powerful because that made me stop blaming everybody else and turn it back on me.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And I think you're really speaking about a very I mean, you you put it in a very kind of simple way, this formula. I really like how you turn it into an equation. I think it's your mathematical mind comes out.
Debbie Weiss: Well, I didn't turn it into an equation. I'll stop you. I don't wanna take credit for something that's not mine. It's actually from the book, The Success Principles by Jack Canfield and Janet Switzer. And I was like, yeah. That with my mind
Dr Monika Wieliczko: But that was
Debbie Weiss: that I finally got it. That made it click for me. Right? We never know. For each of us, it's something else where you finally get it. That was that was my moment.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Black and white, you know, on piece of paper. That's why exactly, you know, background in numbers, isn't it? That's why it speaks to you so well. But what I was thinking actually is, you know, you talk about responsibility, but I think often people, especially women who are faced with loss, especially widows, I think often struggle with guilt. And I think it has a lot to do with inflated sense of responsibility. But the responsibility is located in, I think, in those places that it shouldn't be. And I think the real problem I think we people face is knowing what they are and what they aren't responsible for. And I think we tend to take responsibility for other people, but not necessarily for our life. So this this kind of, as we were talking about, that role reversal that happened in your life with when your father go ill is an example of that, that we suddenly, you know, feel overwhelmed, which, you know, can stem from all sorts of events in our life. But that sense of responsibility, I think, often gets located in the other person. So we we become responsible for other people's lives. But it comes at the cost of of not taking responsibility for the things that we really should be taking responsibility for, which is your own happiness. And this expectation you were talking earlier about, hoping that someone's gonna turn up and rescue you, fix it, which is a very childlike fantasy that we all have. And eventually as time progresses in our life, we, we kind of have, you know, have to, well, developmentally, what happens is that we learn that actually there is no perfect parent who's going to come around and make it all good for us. That actually we are in charge of our lives to some extent. There are things we can't control, but there are many things we can. And, and it's a very challenging process of figuring that out, what it is that we, we can control and the things that we can't. And, and I think that's what your book is about in many ways is kind of getting that control back, getting that sense of responsibility back and sense of, you know, responsibility for our own happiness, which often I think gets lost and, and women are more likely to be pushed into caring roles because of how society often expect us to be, you know, caring, understanding, but also unable of setting the limits. And I think that's where that helplessness that you've been describing comes in, which, you know, I think you, you write about in your book so well about this kind of sense of, okay, well something needs to change. And what I'm more struck by in your book is that it doesn't come from a place of attack. It comes from a place of curiosity and, and actually stepping away from yourself for a second and looking around and thinking, okay, this is what's been going on for so long. So there's a sense of confronting yourself, which I think for a lot of people happens through therapy or through some experiences of having another person helping them see and, and, and I suppose, doesn't have to be therapy, but some kind of relationship that allows you to test that reality and to think, okay, maybe, maybe I do need to be looking after myself better. And it's not, you know, and that guilt that comes up that you described earlier Debbie can be reframed as, you know, difficulty with tolerating, our own anger that sometimes comes up when our boundaries are crossed. And then what happens if you if you're not supposed to get angry, which is another area that often comes up for a lot of widows listening to this podcast that includes myself. You know, you're not supposed to be angry. You're supposed to be just caring, nurturing, and, you know, providing for your family, for your, ill or dying husband and your children you're look looking after. And and that resentment builds up but also creates that sense of frustration that I can't get out. I can't, you know, step away from that role. I can't leave him. I can't, you know, make any changes. It's very difficult, I think in that moment to put yourself in the center and to say, well, actually I've got needs too. And, you know, I think your book really shows how you've been able to turn it around over longer periods of time. It's very realistic. It's not, you know, one magical cure, you know, you do this thing and, you know, your life turns around.
Debbie Weiss: We wish. Right? And we wish it were that easy.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Yeah.
Debbie Weiss: It's not. I think that's that's, you know, I think that that's tough. I think a lot of us most of us want that immediate gratification. And it, it does. It's, it's, it's a process and it's a, it's a journey and nothing happens overnight. I mean, like I said, I've been at this over ten years now.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And
Debbie Weiss: I I honestly am amazed at the person I am today. I comparatively speaking, I'm completely different. Completely different in in what how I view life, how I view myself. Yeah. Completely different person. And it's you know, it it didn't happen overnight, but I can say that it's well worth the journey. And each step that you take is a little step towards it. And I think that when you break it down into small incremental changes, it feels like nothing and not enough. But, boy, they really, really add up. And if you think about it, wouldn't you rather be taking a small step in that direction instead of not? You know? It's at least that feeling, I think it kind of creates, like, that snowball effect. You do a little something. You're like, oh, wow. I accomplished that. Look. Let me try something else. You know? It gets exciting. In the beginning, I remember it felt like a game to me. Mhmm. I've made a game of going to Weight Watchers. Mhmm. You know? I whatever it was that motivated me, I gave my own positive reinforcement. You know? Well, a little star in a in their booklet that said I showed up, you know, their little awards. Like, it it, it drove me. And it's a it is. It's a snowball effect because you start to feel good about yourself because you're taking control, and you're taking purposeful action that is leading you in a direction. And I have to say, as you were talking, it reminded me that so many times, at least I can speak for myself when I say, I didn't have any dreams. I didn't know what my dreams were. I didn't even know where I was where I wanted to be headed. And that doesn't mean that it's a career or it's a, you know, I just had no idea. When they said in some exercise, write down your dream day. I was like, what? I don't know. I had never stopped to consider that. Maybe I thought it was not a possibility. So why hurt myself by even thinking about something like that? But then I realized if I don't have a dream, I I don't have direction. I don't even know where I'm headed. I don't even know where I wanna go. And that was also very transformative for me to realize, you know, I just thought about I and it for me, I could visualize, oh, yeah. You start here. Your destination is over here. Now it's how are you gonna get there? And then when I realized if I took away the destination, I'm just spinning my wheels, you know, because I don't have any, anything I'm striving for. And that that destination changes over time. And that's okay. But at least you have, you know, some place in your mind, something where you wanna where you wanna get to.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: And
Debbie Weiss: I don't think we take the time to do that because we are always worried about everybody else as women, as caregivers. You know, I don't deserve the same time. Once once this happens, then I'll pay attention to myself. Right? Once they're older, once I am not working anymore. I don't know. All the things that we tell ourselves that we're just putting that off, we can't. But you can. You can.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Maybe you can.
Debbie Weiss: Yeah. That's right.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: I think that's a it's a beautiful way to end. And, I yeah. I've really enjoyed listening to your story and just admiring how much you've managed to change your life around, but also, you know, doing this kind of gentle sprinkling of, you know, positive changes, but also just looking after yourself better. So it's been really incredible. And we will put some links to in the show notes for people who would like to find you, reach out to you, buy your book. So all the informations are in the show notes and the book is available, I think across the world. And it's definitely in The UK, it's definitely in The States. And so anyone listening to this would be able to, to find it, get hold of it. And and I know it also comes up with a little exercise book as well alongside it. Is that correct? For people to yeah.
Debbie Weiss: Yes. I I did make it a company workbook, which is optional. It's it's separate, but I've found that, you know, the the most powerful thing about the second book is the exercises. You know, because I've read so many books and they have exercises, and I get to them and I say, oh, I'm not doing these exercises. I'll or I'll just think about the exercises. But in fact, I've learned that the only way if you really want change, you've got to
Dr Monika Wieliczko: you've got
Debbie Weiss: to do the exercises. And so I I like the idea when I've done exercises in the past, I've just kind of grabbed whatever paper notebook is around me. And then when I go to do another one, you know, now I'm on a different notebook. So the idea is this is all in the same place and you have it to refer back to.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Thank you so much, Debbie, for all your contributions today. And, yeah, I'm sure many people benefited from it and and know where to find you and reach out to you. So thank you so much.
Debbie Weiss: Thank you so much. It's been wonderful.
Dr Monika Wieliczko: Thank you for joining us. I hope you found it useful. Connect with me on Facebook and Instagram under Guide to Afterlife for more grief tips and resources. Visit GuidetoAfterlife.com to send me your questions and to take part in the Grief MOT, your free first aid program for grief. See you next Tuesday for yet another stimulating conversation.
